Join me, friends...

...in a protest of winbolo. Stop playing winbolo until 1.15 / log viewer comes. It's simple

hmmm. I', viting damn straight...but im not going to stop playing.

What the heck; there is some satisfaction in beating a sick horse:

respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them

etc.

Well, I don't play anymore, but now I have an excuse!

I am not frustrated with the bugs and glitches at all... Yes, there is room for improvement, but compared to all of my bolo experiences in the past, I find the current version quite bug/glitch free. Development emphasis should be, in my opinion, away from bugs and glitches and focused on the log viewer.

I am protesting with you underdoggy until I see a logviewer ^_^

Acro wrote:

What the heck; there is some satisfaction in beating a sick horse:

respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them

etc.

*beat*

Acro wrote:

What the heck; there is some satisfaction in beating a sick horse:

respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them

etc.

*beat*

Acro wrote:

What the heck; there is some satisfaction in beating a sick horse:

respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them
respawns...redo them

etc.

*beat*


EXACTLY ACRO!!! :p

I fail to see how this open boycott would encourage him, giving that he has nothing to lose if you guys stop playing winbolo. Perhaps it may only discourage him to update a game that fewer people are playing.

Thought I myself would end my retirement and play again if there were certain features that made it much more enjoyable and less prone to disruptment and be less conflict laden then currently exist. However, those features have not even been acknowledge as things he wants to do to the game.

FireIce wrote:

I fail to see how this open boycott would encourage him, giving that he has nothing to lose

I'm boycotting your forum posts, FI. Jackass.

CF

Fermat wrote:

Development emphasis should be, in my opinion, away from bugs and glitches and focused on the log viewer.

I am going to disagree with you here. While adding new features tends to pique people's interest initially, and perhaps keep them around for a bit, I feel that they cannot make up for shady gameplay.

A reason why I say this is because those new features will rarely frustrate you like certain gameplay issues can. I honestly think that if it were an close facsimile a lot more people would come back and play it. I know I would.

And boycotting something which you don't have to repeatedly pay for (or even pay once) is one of the more stupid ideas I've heard of. Afaik, JM could probably drop development of this project right now and really wouldn't be terribly affected by it. We're not doing him a service to play his game, he's doing us a service by giving us a game to play.

I was going to stay out of this discussion becuase most threads I post on turn into flame wars, however, sticks have brought up some excellent points. Whats currently happening to winbolo is known by the software development community as "Feature Creep"

Feature Creep wrote:

Feature creep (sometimes known as requirements creep or scope creep) is a tendency for product or project requirements to increase during development beyond those originally foreseen, leading to features that weren't originally planned and resulting risk to product quality or schedule. Feature creep may be driven by a client's growing "wish list" or by developers themselves as they see opportunity for improving the product.

Sticks wrote:

I am going to disagree with you here. While adding new features tends to pique people's interest initially, and perhaps keep them around for a bit, I feel that they cannot make up for shady gameplay.

I agree, shady gameplay will drive people away far quicker than a lack of neat features, hense feature creep.

Sticks wrote:

A reason why I say this is because those new features will rarely frustrate you like certain gameplay issues can. I honestly think that if it were an close facsimile a lot more people would come back and play it. I know I would.

I agree also, this is the reason I'm not currently playing heavily.

Sticks wrote:

And boycotting something which you don't have to repeatedly pay for (or even pay once) is one of the more stupid ideas I've heard of.

I agree, we should be thanking jm for even bothering to put up with us at all .... ud? .... wtf man? ...

All that being said, I have some further thoughts, I believe focus should be on the logviewer at this point, but I believe that for different reasons than most people are looking forward to it. The problem with alot of winbolo's bugs, is some of them are just weird ... and hard to identify, so we report a bug to jm, and he may have a hard time replicating that bug, becuase of lack of data, or it might be a 1 in 1000 chance of it happening. The logviewer will allow us to send JM detailed logfiles of games that bugs occur in, therefore allowing him to track down the problems alot faster, and bringing the gameplay/bugs to a point were we can enjoy the game, instead of becoming frustrated.

Min

Acro wrote:

there is some satisfaction in beating a sick horse:

So, you're anti-gay, but pro-beastility? Weird. Like CF is.

Min wrote:

I was going to stay out of this discussion becuase most threads I post on turn into flame wars,

MIN YOU SUX!!!! GO TO HELL!!!!! MY PINKY FINGER IS BIGGER THEN YOURS!!!!

min wrote:

however, sticks have brought up some excellent points. Whats currently happening to winbolo is known by the software development community as "Feature Creep" ("FC")

"FC" and "CF" are really one and the same damn problem.

Min wrote:

All that being said, I have some further thoughts, I believe focus should be on the logviewer at this point, but I believe that for different reasons than most people are looking forward to it. The problem with alot of winbolo's bugs, is some of them are just weird ... and hard to identify, so we report a bug to jm, and he may have a hard time replicating that bug, becuase of lack of data, or it might be a 1 in 1000 chance of it happening. The logviewer will allow us to send JM detailed logfiles of games that bugs occur in, therefore allowing him to track down the problems alot faster, and bringing the gameplay/bugs to a point were we can enjoy the game, instead of becoming frustrated.

I had never thought of it that way, but that's finally the first good reason I've seen for the logviewer.

FireIce wrote:

I had never thought of it that way, but that's finally the first good reason I've seen for the logviewer

Yes, that and watching FI's feeble attempts to stave off defeat at the hands of standard autopilot.

CF

FireIce wrote:

"FC" and "CF" are really one and the same damn problem

"FI" and "Drooling Idiots Whose Posts No One Even Reads" are also indistinguishable.

CF

As much as I know that I'm just going to be ignored or mocked, it'd be nice if this topic didn't de-rail too soon.

Alternately, I agree with Min on the logviewer issue. I agree that we do need to be respectful to Elvis, but the fact that he hardly ever responds to topics of this kind is rather frustrating. Whatever the reason for his absence is, it's damned frustrating.

I agree with min. We are wasting our time sitting here talking about how we should protest winbolo. Winbolo is an excellent game that was given to us basically for free. Forget about how good gameplay is, people play the game for enjoyment, plus, most glitches in Winbolo mayb coming from slow Computer internet connections (LAG) that some people have
( including me when i download music :P ) But nevertheless, its something that we must live with.

That's fine and everything, but when we get more and more features and less and less actual fixing of the game it gets to be somewhat frustrating. And yes, lots of the problems with the game do come from lag, but if you're designing a game that's going to be played online... you get the idea.

Last and foremost: we're not forcing Elvis to do anything. We see something wrong, we point it out. Some people are nicer about it than others, but I don't think that there's any real malice behind it.

Ok, no taking winbolo for granted, got it. No bashing the boss since we aren't required to pay for the product, got it. But since it isn't going to be open-sourced, since some of us DID pay a shareware fee and since some of us put alot of time and thought into adding something to this clone of bolo (websites, chatroom, addons, servers, gaming maps, tournaments, ect); we deserve better communication similar to what Nova pointed out. Tell us that you're sick of this project and you're dumping it - that's ok. Or tell us what your plans are for improvements/updates with some kind of regular communication - ok. Live in a Black Hole - not ok.

I wouldn't say that we deserve better communication but it sure would be nice. I wouldn't particularly mind an open-source WinBolo, either. Yes, I'm aware that Elvis said he wouldn't open-source.

Acro wrote:

some of us put a lot of time and thought into adding something to this clone of bolo

I put a lot of time and thought into adding defamatory remarks about Fireice. Time well spent!

CF

Yep, you've driven him from bolo and toward the bottle. Good news for your liquor store sales!

Maybe elvis ran out of money? We could sell CF for 89 cents and a rubber band, that might satisfy elvis. :D

Nova wrote:

Last and foremost: we're not forcing Elvis to do anything. We see something wrong, we point it out. Some people are nicer about it than others, but I don't think that there's any real malice behind it.

Do we really point it out? Honestly, how many times during the middle of a game have you completely stopped playing, held up the game, and took notes of everything that happened right before an alledged bug occured? It's probably close to something approaching zero.

I've been playing this game for four years now and there's only been two bugs that I can say I helped him find. Two bugs. I'm sure there's a LOT more than just two (one of which has been already fixed and the other is slated for fixing in 1.15).

The reason why people are agreeing with Min on his point about the Logviewer is because everyone knows they are lazy when it comes to reporting bugs. How many bug reports has JM received in the past year? Again, probably not many when compared to what he would receive if the LV were implemented.