Comeback

Apr 22, 2006 03:58 Comeback
This is for all of you who have a habit of quitting the game once the going gets thought.

This log proves that:

You can be cornered early on the game and make a comeback.

You can be down to 1 dead pb that is sitting next to a live enemy pb and 4 bases and still make a comeback.

You can be down to 3 spiked bases and still make a comeback.

Against good players. Kudoes to Ari and Timbnz, my allies who never gave up no matter how bleak our situation looked like.

http://www.winbolo.net/gamelog.php?mode=logfile&key=c7585811e1e5fd1030ce9a3fac551b7f
Apr 22, 2006 05:19
Another good 1x1 between chaps and I:
http://www.winbolo.net/gamelog.php?key=008d7eafc53ca85909359f1a74a87e7a
Apr 23, 2006 15:47
2x1 me and zet vs DZ

http://www.winbolo.net/gamelog.php?mode=logfile&key=a5e03e15cb097ed39802ac72e938bf78
Apr 24, 2006 14:33
On that handicap game I have a few comments. It's quite long but there's a lot of good information in here that can help new players immensely. I also apologize to Elvis, Ren, and FI ahead of time as I call out mistakes they have.


1) LGMs. This is my bread and butter. I understand that if a tank doesn't have their LGM, they can't repair or build PBs which in WinBolo is a very large part of the game. However, in a 2x3 using the strategy of "kill all LGMs" doesn't work too well if you're on the 2 side as you can see after the missed pickup by Elvis. There are a couple of reasons. One, you have an extra LGM to "waste" and two, you have an extra player who can be used to double a live PB. FI's team used this to their advantage and sacrificed a couple LGMs to keep their few PBs alive while killing one or two LGMs.

2) Liquidity in PBs. Pillboxes are like money, it's nice to have a sizable amount in the bank (placed on the ground) but you always need to have some cash on hand (in your tank).

When Elvis and Ren seemed to be kicking ass during the large comeback they made one thing I noticed was that Ren seemed to be spitting out PBs like no tomorrow. By keeping PBs in your tank during a defensive stand, you force your opponent to make the first move and are able to react much better than if you have your only 3 pills set up in some funky array.

The downside of this strategy comes at the 27:50 mark: FI plants a PB because he knows Ren is low on armor and wants to force him further back into SW to refuel, Ren takes too many hits and drops SIX pillboxes.

3) Pillbox Placement. If you look at 17:50 mark of the log, notice Ren's and Elvis' pills: they are scattered about in no particular fashion.

The west side of the map contains six pills left over from the defensive comeback earlier in the log. The east side of the map contains two pills that are in danger of being picked off, one pill placed during an emergency situation, and two others placed rather conservatively in SE.

The reason why this happened? Hyper-extension into SE. Ren and Elvis swooped in and took the quad back very quickly. What this causes is players to keep travelling back to further off bases to refuel and then driving back to protect the PBs. Because of all the driving back and forth, the players don't have as much time as they normally would to pickup those PBs to set up a solid pill wall, run a distraction, then back-spike when all of FI's team's PBs were set.

Fast forward to 22:00. FI's team comeback is well on it's way. Notice the PB placement. It's even, helps prevent any base rapes, and crippling spikes. It also helps aid in "rolling" the enemy back if movement is done properly (Min, UD, and zach are some of the best at this in WinBolo). It's true that their line was later dismantled -- thanks to Ren and again his liquidity in PBs taking SE back with three PBs of his own -- but it shows how placement can be effective.

Again, FI's team shows good placement at mark 29:15. A mega-base of sorts to prevent any offensive moves by Ren or Elvis.

An example of a potentially-bad placement would be Elvis at the 28:35 mark. The only two PBs planted on their side are left over from the defensive stand they took early in the game and are really of no help. Instead of planting in NW to protect against rapings, he plants for a take with an enemy nearby. Tip comes in, kills Elvis' LGM, and in 20 seconds, two supporting PBs are planted by the other team, all but securing the loss of that PB.

In a handicap game never plant for a take unless you are sure that you have enough time to pull it off and that there are no enemies nearby and if there are no other PBs nearby. The good thing about this plant was that it effectively tied up attention while Ren used his skills in SE to gain back a quad and butt-up against FI's pill line due East.

4) Tarmac. Towards the end I saw Elvis and Ren losing precious time because of driving around/over craters or rubble in going back and forth between their three quads. Those that play on my team and against me know that I hate this and am the first to tarmac and sensitive spots. Just one placement of tarmac can make a hell of a difference down the line and is worth the resources. Take a look at the east side of the map near the 25:00 mark: rubble and craters are all over and have a large impact on driving and LGM sends.

5) Lack of purpose. Around 21:00 Elvis picks up the wayword pill and drives around a bit then heads towards NW and plants his pill directly next to an enemy base (a questionable tactic, IMO). Ren does eventually pick up the pill but the PB is still in an iffy spot. After the take Elvis meanders back to SE sits on a few bases (I'm assuming they were low on fuel) and finally decides to attack FI when he wanders into SE.

It's a small example but just goes to show what Min told me early on: if you're not doing something, you're losing. If you don't have an LGM, rape, poop mines, kill trees. If you have an LGM and your partner doesn't, watch the PBs like a hawk, patrol the line, take down the armor on any enemy bases you can. If an enemy is doing a take on the opposite end of the map, you better be in the midst of taking one of their pills or raping a few of their bases.
Apr 24, 2006 22:29
Sticks,

That was a very interesting analysis post that you made. There were a few good things that you pointed out that I hadn't noticed myself. While I don't agree with everything you wrote in your final paragraph (the part about killing trees and pooping mines), I found your article beneficial and well written for newer players and hope to see more. Even I would benefit from such discussions to hear other's perspectives.

I had pondered whether to post an IRC log I had with jhood about another game we discussed. I think I will go ahead since it seems now I'm not the only one interested in posting these type of analysis.
Apr 25, 2006 01:59
The game should've been over by the 12 minute mark. Ari and Tim weren't doing enough from the 8 minute mark.

Elvis lost his LGM way too many times. Elvis lost his quad so quickly because he wasted time taking north base and the NE center base. That let FI to get the east pills. Elvis noticed FI in his quad and tried to defend by planting a pill, but FI killed Elvis' LGM.

At the 10:35 mark, Elvis got a free pilltake. Also at the 10:35 mark, FI made the most useless plant possible. He basically tied himself up to defend that plant. FI also left the north base untaken, and decided to take the 3 bases in NE instead. North base was easy to take, and should have been taken, with a pill behind it for defense.

Also around the 10 minute mark, Tim kept heating that pill by shooting it 8 times and then fixing it. Tim, you only need 3 shots to heat a pill. Also, that pill was too far away to prevent someone from picking up the dead pill near by, it should have been moved closer.