the 'Kaos' point of view on all things winbolo!

NOOBS:

At the end of the day this is a 'GAME'! Certain people tend to forget that.
Not everyone plays to be a good player some just play for 'FUN' and at the end of the day thats what it comes down to
so it's understandable that some people (noobs) wont play by the rules because they will just think 'stfu' this is a game
and im gonna play however i want to. They dont care how they 'should' be playing or what they 'should' be doing because
like i said 'it's just a game' to them and they want to play for fun.
Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. they've just downloaded winbolo and join a game.
suddenly they are bombarded with insults and instructions to leave or watch. they see messages such as 'he's a noob'
'he suck's' 'leave now'. they are sitting there without even knowing what a pill is or how to control their tank and are
instantly being desuaded to play.
i can tell you the thoughts that would be going through my mind:
OMG what a load of shite!
Who are these pricks?
Fuck this im going back to grand theft auto/diablo or whatever shit.
start - programs - winbolo - uninstall.

or alternativley:

what a bunch of wankers! fuck it im gonna start. im gona drive around the map, take bases and create craters all
over the god damn place! then when they get pissed off and leave i will also leave and join their new game and fuck that up
too!
that will be fun for me!
Yeah i'll get banned but ill grovel to min in irc for 2 mins and i'll be back in no time to 'have some more fun!'
then maybe i'll be banned again but fuckit im a smart arse i'll just change my ip and be back out there!

This is the course of events that seem to take place quite frequently and it's just not fun for anyone.

For those of us who have played for a while it is competitve to us and we do want to become better players. We love winbolo
and wouldnt bother playing anything else. if we ever leave we will always come back because we are winbolo!
but we cant expect everyone who joins our games to care about the rules and care what we think.
not that im saying its fine for people to do what they want and screw up games but we've all got to keep this in mind.

i see people join games all the time. people i have never heard of before. we cant expect them to understand the rules
and abide by them although it is very annoying and can get quite repetitive.
i think this is why people dont stick around. they join games get told what to do and to leave and they will just think
to themselves 'fuck this id rather play something else' then they are gone never to return.
we all need to be a bit more careful with our choice of words with noobs if we want to keep this game alive and to have
some good competition in the future. the ones who want to stay and chose winbolo as their choice of game can be taught
in time with constuctive criticsm and hopefully become good players.

i think noobs should be actively encouraged as i was in the early days, mainly by addbot, then they will want to follow
rules and improve and hopefully stick around and become good players.
I very nearly stopped playing all together a couple of times at the start as im sure people could tell you but i was
one of the noobs who were determined as id played macbolo in the early 90's and knew how fun the games could be, which
was mainly my main insentive to keep at it so i stuck around. i can tell you that if i hadn't had the support from certain
players in the early days that i definatley wouldnt have kept playing because all of the agro you get as a noob just aint
worth it!.
i'd have told myself that the game was good before but know has gone to shit!
i dont see that same support that i received anymore! but i can also understand why. we get tired of explaining the same
shit all the time just to have it thrown back in our faces so most players dont even bother anymore, they just direct bad
attitudes and insults toward all noobs, at all times.
no wonder they keep fucking up games and dont abide by our rules!!!

i have adopted a '3 strike system' now with all noobs. i will be more patient toward them until i find out what their
intentions are i.e here to fuck around or here to improve and play.
if i discover their intentions to be bad i will just quit and join another game. i don't think i'll watse my time and energy
telling them what i think of them when i could be playing instead.
if their intentions are found to be positive i would like to see them intergrated into teams with players of all skill levels
and if they prove themselves by putting in the effort maybe i will show them a couple easy pilltakes and give appropriate
encouragement and appraisals.
i think we would all benefit from doing something like this. it may help us improve our player numbers and skill levels.
i would also like to see the 'better' players be a bit more helpful with the less skilled players (although im not
really expecting them to).
A bit more helpful advice than just 'you fucking suck' or 'your horrible' would be better taken on board.
constructive criticism is the way to helping people improve which brings me to my next point:

TEAMS:

With the exception of opens all the top players on one team doesnt really help matters.
if i have a top player on my team i tend to learn from them by watching pillveiw etc.
where and when to attack, plant, protect, push, defend, rape etc. etc.
having a player like that on my team gives me the confidence and support to improve.
getting smashed in 2 minutes is, im sorry, but totally a waste of time and just an opportunity for experienced players
to gloat and tell people how bad they are.
they will say that 'it helps you improve'. im sorry but thats not how i learn.
others may be different i dont know but thats not how i 'roll'.
if you have the support of a good player and can be backed up when u fuck up then dont you think that is a better way of
learning from your mistakes? by being given another shot at it instead of game over please come again?
It's understandable that players who have played together for years want to ally eachother as they know their allies skill
level and how to work well together to achieve the win therefore making for fun games all around, but when its a constant
daily thing it gets a little old and boring. not necessarily for the aforementioned allies but for the players on the other
team. Now you might be thinking so fuck! who cares about the other players? this will help them improve!
well for my opinion on that re-read from the top!
If you are a good player and you dont give a fuck about anyone else and helping them improve what do you think will
eventually happen?
You wont have players and therefore you wont have games!
if practise mode suits you fine then so be it. keep being an asshole and look forward to the inevitable!
my opinion on this matter should by now be very clear. mix up the teams a little. hey it could be fun!
also maybe YOU could learn something by being on the wrong side of spintega's pill-line?
sometimes i really cant understand the mentality of some people. if and when i reach a level where i am considered a
'good' player i'm pretty sure that i will want to be playing AGAINST people of a similar or better level than me in order
to improve more or just keep me sharp. i cant imagine its very 'fun' to be beating lower skilled players with my eyes closed
and by not using the lgm! even now i like to do this but if im on the wrong side of spin's line with ud
and chaps there to back him up its a surefire no-hope chance and an inevitabley quick pawnage session. especially with
the likes of wuff and jinx as my allies. no disrespect to those guys intended and im not saying thats what teams would
be if it came down to it but you can hopefully see my point.
now on the other hand if ud or chaps was behind me for support and i was up against spin in a pillwar i may have more of a
chance to actually learn something while having fun. just by having that glimmer of chance of a win it can make the game
so much more exciting and enjoyable!

GB:

What a douchebag dumbass!

This guy! wow!

where to start?

he has obviously played for a long time. he has a 'special' style which everybody MUST copy or they are 'out of date'!
GB - in my opinion your 'style' is that of an inexperienced player! yes your constant and relentless spikes sometimes work
but in the grand scheme of things.....no!
and please. if you like to play alone dont join our team games and just do your own thing.
our 'stupid defensive lines' are below you! you are obviously at a much higher level than all others who play this game so
why do you even bother?
in a team game we like to work as a team. by this i mean we 'help' eachother and 'communicate' about strategy etc.
if you go off and do your own thing by throwing all of our pills into enemy territory and basically 'giving' them away
what is the point? its no fun for us! meanwhile you may be having a ball! but a team game is not all about YOU!
can you imagine how shit it would be to play if everyone adopted your 'style'? spiking a player who is just spiking
you then going and spiking him more? what kind of tactics are they? tactics like that should be reserved for maps such
as smallball.
maybe you should learn how to build a defensive line and maybe 'defend' it. learn how to snipe and counter attacks instead
of just 100% attacking? you would improve ten-fold! and maybe earn a little respect, which is obviously lacking, in the
process!
players dont like to ally you mainly because of this reason. you say you are not a team player? DONT JOIN TEAM GAMES!

Now, i have given my opinion on a couple of points here and i dont expected everyone to agree with me. i had to get a
couple of things off my chest which have plagued me for a while. i dont expect big changes either i just wanted to put
my voice out there on some of the topics annoying people at the present moment.

k thx

Wow...this sounds soooo familiar. Guess I'm not missing much.

The thing is, this argument has probably been said before, there is no reason to expect every player to want to help the community, or play honourably, or have manners, and theres no definitive way to behave to noobs, and when you compare it to other games, were pretty accomodating.

its a surefire no-hope chance and an inevitabley quick pawnage session. especially with
the likes of wuff and jinx as my allies. no disrespect to those guys intended

you mean, wuff and [insert name of someone who isnt better]

what do you mean 'no'

tl;dr

thats funny, back when i was about your skill level riddler, i relished being on the so called noob team against the vets.....because it gave me responsibility and i knew any success i had would be that much sweeter.

It also helped me figure out what works and what doesn't pretty quickly.

If I always was put on a team that had only really good players who carried the team themselves, I wouldn't have gotten good by now...and thats a fact.

It boils down to the differences in how people learn, you are more of an observing learner apparently.....I learn best from practical trial and failure...of my own accord in pressure situations.

Therefore it is less than ideal to suggest that everyone learns like you do riddler...and that your way is the best and only way. However it was important for me to try to learn from observing as well...and important for you to try to learn from other ways.

Therefore it is important to treat every game as a learning experience. Frankly there could have been a lot more games of bolo if some of us put playing (and learning) ahead of having the most absolutely evenly split teams (in things as ridiculous as 4v4s and above).

I don't think you are on the "large noob team" in every game you play, you just dont like it when you are. If you don't like some variety, then your progress will be that much slower....because you are deliberately cutting out a chance to learn. Which comes to the point that even when you fail, you've got to pinpoint on what YOU did wrong that game and focus on not doing that in subsequent games. No amount of watching better players will fix this....it has to come from within.

BTW, gb doesn't read anything on this forum so its pointless addressing him here.

and one more thing:

there have been plently of nub noobs that have stopped when people have asked them (say in taking bases in a strict as soon as they join)......and have asked questions and learnt about the rules of stricts in 2 games or less.

Just because they are becoming less and less frequent doesn't mean that they have never existed. I'd blame this on the type of society that has evolved on the internet....and the proliferation of wham blam thank you mam internet games.

It boils down the attitude of the player. If they can't be willing to read and listen to the newswire, then they will be treated badly...because they never made an effort to learn some basics on the game in the first place....and that attitude has no place in stricts.

We are pretty accommodating overall. Sure some of us have some tough love for them, but if they can't handle that, they certainly can't handle the shittalk that happens after every game. Noone has to play along with that stuff if they don't want to. Take rat for example, he simply starts a new game, joins it, and doesn't really talk to anyone. He's choosing to play bolo instead of be a part of the 'community' persay. Which is perfectly alright, anyone else can also do that.

I run an open game spawner for new players. That's what its there for, so that new players can join, play some games regardless of their skill level. Maybe learn something from some of the other players. If they try to join a strict, chances are they won't get very far in it if they haven't read the rules.

I'd say overall our player base is increasing. You can complain all you like about how noobs get treated, but some of them are sticking around. This is in contrast to a few years ago when we weren't running open games and all strict games were passworded by default. New players were not sticking around because they simply couldn't play at all. Winbolo is not dieing off at the moment like in the picture your painting. Just have a look at the number of games that are cycling through. The inevitable death of the game because we don't treat new players better is not occurring. We are trending upwards at the moment. The game was at an all time low when LRL was in control. Now its recovering.

I agree that in general some of the players should be nicer to new players, but from my experience that isn't really going to happen, usually there are one or two people who help new players out, and the rest just play bolo. I've typically been one of the people trying to help the new players along. The level of skill of all the players playing currently is pretty low overall because the 'top' players haven't been playing, or passing along any of the things that made them good to the new crowd. I've been trying to change that, such as with the posting of all of the strategy stuff I had hidden away on my harddrive, and giving guys like spintega a lot of tips and hints on how to improve. And setting the default keys for the game to something more sensible to help with the beginning learning curve.

Min

To quote what kaos said: basicly i agree/ to a point where we shouldnt insult the new players; they need to be incouraged to wanna play bolo, not be insulted, yes.. when the vets/pre-vets are playing a strict team game and a noob joins and ruins the map for us its blows D**k and i know sending them a message like 'please leave' they are not gonna see it or just careless cause to the its just a game; A game that they dont understand the rules to yet***

Kaos,

Man, you need to employ an editor! Some good points in there, to be sure.

Please be kind to noobs, people. And when you encounter noobs who seem to insist on juvenile behaviour, I guarantee that slinging potty talk their way will not improve things. Tell them they're ruining the game for others and then leave the game and password lock the next one.

Those types thrive on negative attention, so give them none at all.

I think this is a good online community. Apart from everyone's love for Winbolo, the other common denominator is that, generally speaking, you are all very helpful.

I don't mind being told I am useless, but I do expect some supporting evidence, like HS and HWC told me that I don't know what is happenning. They proceeded to explain to me the importance of pillview and i am trying to incorporate that instinct into my game.

The other day I was in a 2v2 and the lag was very bad. I screwed up a pilltake and was getting overrun. One player who was watching said that I was useless, and everyone agreed top quit and start a new game - without me. I can understand that I am going to bring a 2-tank team down unless we are playing someone ultra-shite but this kind of situation is disheartening. However, this kind of situation is very rare.

Azz has been good in taking me on his side when he knows we are going to get squashed but there are times, even if it is 4v3, when the 3 side has three good vets and the 4 side has 1. Getting demolished in 2 minutes does not teach me much.

Conversely the other day we split the teams and had a couple of really good matches. Sure I was running around like a headless chicken but I saw how the game evolved and the deeper strategies.

The point is, one or more of the vets has to accept allying the noobs and that they will be facing an uphill battle at best to get in the game. But I think that makes it more fun. I don't like playing soccer against a team and winning 15 nil, similarly I'd prefer to lose 4-3 and would imagine the same would apply for bolo.

UD gave me some advice about improving my tactics and by this I know it means I need to practice offline. This was good advice but I would really like a few decent bots to make things slightly more interesting. Maybe I could develop one if I get the time but i doubt it.

Finally, Kaos has been very helpful. He is my Bolo father. He has spent a lot of time on me and I hope one day to become good enough to repay his efforts.

I know there are players who act strangely or are even downright impolite but try to give them the benefit of the doubt as long as you can. For example I am sure coco can not understand English. I will always treasure the screen dump I have of him walled in.........

Take it easy.

One player who was watching said that I was useless, and everyone agreed to quit and start a new game - without me.

This sort of thing makes me mad. I know Eryan is being philosophical about it, but the other players were just plain rude. We aren't talking about a noob who deliberately ruins the game for everybody; instead Eryan is someone who will one day be a huge asset to the game and to our community.

If elite players want to get together and have an elite match, fine. Spawn a game and password lock it so only your elite clique can join. But if you spawn a strict game to attract all players and then dump the well-intentioned noob part way through because he's 'useless,' you are just a bunch of losers. Yes, i said LOSERS!

Contrast this to the game I played last night where the most highly-skilled player allied a complete noob in a 2x2. Of course they lost, but the high-skills guy fought his hardest 'til the very last breath and the noob learned a lot of valuable lessons by observation. Nobody wanted the game to end, so we left them a base and started playing silly just so the tables would turn - which they did. We all had a great time and I hope the noob returns for more. Even though I'm not very good, I'll ally him in a 2x2 any day.

Bolo is a great game, but that's all it is: a game. How you treat others defines who you really are.

Bolo is a great game, but that's all it is: a game. How you treat others defines who you really are.

Kind of a contradictory statement. Either its just a game and therefore you can't take people's attitudes and game personalities as the real deal in real life.....(since its just a game).

......or its somehow something much more than a game and therefore everything applies exactly to how they are as people.

From my experience of the internet, it is the former. The vast majority of people are quite different from how they might come across on the internet....and at the very most you are seeing only one facet of them.....which is definitely not enough to base a conclusion on. When people dont have faces and body language....we lose out on a lot of the communication.....its why road rage happens to people that you otherwise wouldn't expect.

Treating noobs badly in a game doesn't automatically mean you're a grouch that hates beginners in real life. The game can often be a release for someone....in a way he/she doesn't act in real life. The point is we don't know and have no way of knowing unless you actually meet up with boloers and know them as people.

i agree. we should have a winbolo 'get together'! your country or mine??? :D

The internet is the wild west. Dog eat dog world. Pretty much just like life once you're on your own. Learn for yourself, don't rely on others, and stick with it and don't get discouraged when you hit a roadblock. Difference is, people can just turn off winbolo. But trust me, if you've ever played a popular online game before, we're cute and fuzzy in comparison. The fact that we even bother to help people we don't even know as opposed to just banning you when you do something frustrating should indicate our intentions. But the people who got butt-hurt by underdog's tone in his post need to man up and learn to deal with that type of trivial thing. It will come as most of you get older. Complaining about people being rude gets you nowhere. It just makes you a complainer.

haha, that age old 'man up, bitch' shit can be applied to any situation, all the way down till your a damn mine slave in Mozambique, only then are you immune. Mr Middle Class American.

min summed that up in one statement in my eyes.

We are pretty accommodating overall. Sure some of us have some tough love for them, but if they can't handle that, they certainly can't handle the shit talk that happens after every game.

only its not just after every game, a lot of the time its during a game. players need to understand that when someone is yelling at you, even tho its getting to you, its "tuff love". most times when i get yelled at i look at it as crit. because when the game is over and the anger stops, this is when the learning begins. most "noobs" dont let it get to this point and quit writing off bolo for ever.

but, this element is not common to bolo only, i find all multi/real time player games have the same dicks (me being one) yelling the same shit at you. if you cant handle the shit talk then multi/real time gaming is just not for you, stick to poker or yahoo pool. once i see a noob i saw in the game in irc, i know they are just about here to stay and worth teaching. its the one time visitors that quit the game to early we dont need.

Permit me to sum up the two sides:

1) Internet games like bolo are a 'dog eat dog' alternate reality. Players are not really responsible for their words and actions. I behave like a creep and if you can't handle that well too bad, get off the internet and allow me and my cronies to continue to defecate in our own nest.

2) Despite the abundance of internet boors and troglodytes, I will conduct myself with honour when online. Although I cannot see the face of these others, I understand that they are human beings also. I will do my part to increase their enjoyment of Bolo.

Anybody for Door Number Two?

Point is there will always be both kinds of people, and there's nothing you can do about that. Are you going to let the bad ones hamper you, or are you going to learn to cope and excel in any situation?

Cmdr_X wrote:

Permit me to sum up the two sides:

1) Internet games like bolo are a 'dog eat dog' alternate reality. Players are not really responsible for their words and actions. I behave like a creep and if you can't handle that well too bad, get off the internet and allow me and my cronies to continue to defecate in our own nest.

2) Despite the abundance of internet boors and troglodytes, I will conduct myself with honour when online. Although I cannot see the face of these others, I understand that they are human beings also. I will do my part to increase their enjoyment of Bolo.

Anybody for Door Number Two?

well, i can see what side your on there Cmdr, but do you even play bolo anymore? your jumping to extreams in your sum ups. i think eveyone is a good mixture of the 2, and not so extream. if i find out some noob wants help, and actually get better, then i give them the respect they deserve, but to the douche bag's that just want to cheat and fuck games up i write off and hate on them...

DAllen wrote:

Wow...this sounds soooo familiar. Guess I'm not missing much.

I guess we'll see you in a couple years so you can say the exact same thing again? :D