Respawning inside a wall

May 25, 2010 01:19 Respawning inside a wall
Is this in the spirit of the game. Obviously the other team chose this map so they could do this to win the game. I lost my man the whole game and was walled in for most of the game, my ally had to come and get me and then he was killed.

Change the map so this is not possible.

I think it is cognitive disnoance.
May 25, 2010 01:29
Thats a piece of strategy some are willing to employ to win, it takes up valuable time to: get trees, build a boat, get more trees, and block up a start, this can also be done on captain blood. Which in that time your enemy could have ripped into your quad and spiked or raped etc. The results are effective, and it was quite legal seeing as it was a 3v3. Might be a bit shit in a handicapped game, i would know its an advantage of being there to kill them and the rescuer, becuase i was doing it, which is an optional bonus per se.

Oh and it was skew toy 3, not cog.
May 25, 2010 02:22
This is a common tactic on maps that allow for it. If you don't like it, simply don't play on maps that allow for it.

Min
May 25, 2010 04:23
I think a few Berz maps have that. Like Baringi, maybe?
May 25, 2010 05:33
Is it worth having this on maps? What is the value to the game of Bolo?

I didn't sit around waiting for a game, only to join it, wait for teams to be chosen, which take a long time, only to sit inside a wall for most of the game. Unlike other parts of Bolo, it isn't my skill level that dictates my situation - it is luck.
May 25, 2010 17:04
ErYan wrote:
Is it worth having this on maps? What is the value to the game of Bolo?


what kind of a question is that? most of those maps were created over 15 years ago now, if you don't like them, don't play them, problem solved.

ErYan wrote:
I didn't sit around waiting for a game, only to join it, wait for teams to be chosen, which take a long time, only to sit inside a wall for most of the game. Unlike other parts of Bolo, it isn't my skill level that dictates my situation - it is luck.


Wait...... what exactly are you complaining about again? that you got walled in? or that the map starts were walled so you couldn't get on land? If you got walled in, its your own damn fault, and can happen on any map. If the starts get walled, then just have your ally bust you a hole, hardly a big issue. Seems to me based on your numerous posts, that you just like to bitch. And of course, blame losing on other external sources like 'obviously they picked this map so they could do that, because they were so scared of my awesome skills' or some such.

Min
May 25, 2010 17:58
although Eryan's opinion is naive, he isnt a bitchtits, and quite polite if i do say so
May 27, 2010 22:28
'because they were so scared of my awesome skills'

the only one scared is UD......

scared of my awesome skills of killing his lgm when we're allied
May 28, 2010 08:22
Min wrote:
ErYan wrote:
Is it worth having this on maps? What is the value to the game of Bolo?


what kind of a question is that? most of those maps were created over 15 years ago now, if you don't like them, don't play them, problem solved.

ErYan wrote:
I didn't sit around waiting for a game, only to join it, wait for teams to be chosen, which take a long time, only to sit inside a wall for most of the game. Unlike other parts of Bolo, it isn't my skill level that dictates my situation - it is luck.


Wait...... what exactly are you complaining about again? that you got walled in? or that the map starts were walled so you couldn't get on land? If you got walled in, its your own damn fault, and can happen on any map. If the starts get walled, then just have your ally bust you a hole, hardly a big issue. Seems to me based on your numerous posts, that you just like to bitch. And of course, blame losing on other external sources like 'obviously they picked this map so they could do that, because they were so scared of my awesome skills' or some such.

Min


I am complaining about the fact that I respawned (note the title of this thread if you mistakenly believe I was walled in whilst having a wank), and subsequently spent most of the game unable to participate. It took me a considerable amount of time just to get into the game therefore once I am in the game I do not wish to do nothing.

All I am trying to do is explain that a map constructed in this way may not result in a fair game. I think that changing those spaces to deep sea would make this a better map.

Consider if played 1v1 this map is clearly a pointless exercise. Is it any less pointless in a 2v2, 3v3 and so on? I do not believe bolo is a game of chance.

Did I say anything about my awesome skills? Everyone who has played with me knows how good I am - that is, shite. However in this instance we had just won a team game and the rematch was on this map. I started, ran bases, died and was then stuck.

Is this a community or a clique? Because if you are not interested in opinions in your forum then just say so. However, I wish to make you aware of the fact that a community grows while a clique by definition will not.
May 28, 2010 08:38 ...
Basically some maps have 4 shallow water squares around the deep sea spawn square.

On these shallow squares, people can build a road and then a block....thus effectively cutting off the spawn from the map.

Just check out skew toy 3 for an example.

I cant really think of any others other than this map (and that too I only realised it when I checked it).

Frankly I have never heard of this being an issue before where someone walls the spawn square off....its pretty rare.

I agree with min: just dont play skew toy 3.....or have a gentleman's agreement not to wall the starts in.

OR.....make your own version of skew toy three without the 4 shallow squares on each start...and work on promoting that (get it on minbot etc....).
May 28, 2010 15:50
Eryan,

Unfortunately, you played on a map with a built-in exploit. Most symetrical maps are very fair, but there are a few that were purposely - it seems - designed to give the knowledgeable player a rapid advantage.

When everyone playing understands the unique strategic value of the spawn points, this would be an interesting - and maybe even fun - map to play. It effects tactics in many ways: 1) teammates cannot take risks at the same time; 2) you must ALWAYS pay close attention to the message wire to see if your buddy is in trouble 3) lots of deep sea ship-to-ship 'pirating' to wall spawn points on the enemy's side.

It seems to me that the people who chose this map were being a little selfish to inflict it on a team of new players. For an open game sure, but it's really discouraging to a beginner to be sidelined for the whole game.

If you're experiencing this sort of treatment on a regular basis, it may be time to exclude the 'clique' players from your life. Stop joining their games, or maybe switch operating systems and come join a group with a more inclusive attitude.

Or tough it out and next time wall their spawn points first ;-)
May 28, 2010 16:01
ErYan wrote:
I am complaining about the fact that I respawned (note the title of this thread if you mistakenly believe I was walled in whilst having a wank), and subsequently spent most of the game unable to participate. It took me a considerable amount of time just to get into the game therefore once I am in the game I do not wish to do nothing.


Ah alright, was having some problems understanding what exactly your issue was, mostly due to the posts people made after yours. Ok, walled in starts, got it.

ErYan wrote:
All I am trying to do is explain that a map constructed in this way may not result in a fair game. I think that changing those spaces to deep sea would make this a better map.

Consider if played 1v1 this map is clearly a pointless exercise. Is it any less pointless in a 2v2, 3v3 and so on? I do not believe bolo is a game of chance.


A map constructed this way is somewhat irrelevant. First rule new players need to learn is this .... don't die .... if you don't die, you won't get put in a blocked in start. Another thing you need to realize, is your enemy has just as big of a chance of landing in the blocked off area as you do. This tactic is a losing tactic, against a player who doesn't die, you'll eventually just spawn in the area you blocked off. The risk vs reward is pretty bad overall.

Hence why I was a bit confused about what your were talking about, this tactic is clearly extremely stupid. Your enemy got lucky. Simple as that. Normal start blocking involves blocking in an area but leaving a allied base as a entrance, that way no enemy tanks can drive up on land behind you unless they have ammo. Which is a workable tactic and what I thought you were talking about, since in that case you can simply drive around to an open start.

ErYan wrote:
Did I say anything about my awesome skills? Everyone who has played with me knows how good I am - that is, shite. However in this instance we had just won a team game and the rematch was on this map. I started, ran bases, died and was then stuck.


I think you've just explained to yourself why noone bothered to come save you sooner. In a 2x2, if I lost a good ally due to this 'tactic' I'd immediately do what I could to save him/them. I'm not trashing your skills here, but you kind of implied that they did this just to beat you, and that was the entire purpose for starting that map. If you lost a 1x1 this way, then you deserved to lose, GG and quit. Start another game, different map. Problem solved.

ErYan wrote:
Is this a community or a clique? Because if you are not interested in opinions in your forum then just say so. However, I wish to make you aware of the fact that a community grows while a clique by definition will not.


Any community requires members who contribute. However, you only bitch. please point me to a positive post you've made. Any positive contribution will do. My current perception is that you complain, and then you complain some more. The current issue your complaining about has never been a major issue, and most of berz's maps have the shallow water squares around the start. The solution is simple, either don't play those maps, or don't die. Dieing on the baserun is a big nono on most maps. Or you could just kill your enemy and have them spawn in their blocked in area, do that a few times and they'll stop doing it, garuntee'd. But your current 'solution' is to come on here, and complain about how these maps made it so you couldn't play. I like to call that pointing fingers. You mentioned multiple times that you had to wait 20 minutes for a game, and then this happened. Point the finger at yourself, you died. It had nothing to do with luck, just your own bad play.

In conclusion, there is no way I'm going to modify maps that are 15+ years old, so that this can't be done. Its not a problem, it never has been a problem and thus doesn't require a solution. Don't die on the base run.

Min
May 29, 2010 02:01
I don't think I only complain on the forum, if i tell you about a server problem that isn't a complaint, it is informing you of a problem. If I then suggest possible ways to fix the problem am I not trying to help?

A post on Bolo for the IPad, only so the community has a chance of growing. I am NOT complaining - Min you are really lazy because you haven't written Bolo for the IPad.

You told me I ate some trees before go once, I defended myself, as I am pretty sure I didn't. That is not complaining.

Another time someone on my own team killed me. I justly complained without naming anyone.

I think you will find that my posts are objective and positive towards the improvement of Bolo.

I can understand to a degree the point you are making about the maps and I am new so maybe I do not fully appreciate the intricacies of the maps' construction. I was frustrated at spending a whole game in a wall. Yes, I shouldn't have died but i was base running for the team - I know I am the worst player and I know when I die it doesn't matter as much, but then I also want to be part of the game too. I am sure you can appreciate that.
May 29, 2010 03:47
Min you are really lazy because you haven't written Bolo for the IPad.


Min, you've also got to make the 3D version of bolo work...complete with a battle.net interface. ...and of course make a version of this for the ipad too.

Also could you please just get rid of the lag? Just wave your wand and make it disappear k?

Oh wait none of this will happen because your a lazy SOB, LAZY BUM!

/sarcasm

Dude eryan, I think you should stfu.
May 29, 2010 04:02
Ah ok, your correct, your ipad post wasn't bitching, I apologize. Just seems like you complain alot. At least your somewhat articulate about it, which I do appreciate.

Min
May 29, 2010 09:59
Min basically voluntarily develops Winbolo, alongside Sticks, Elvis etc. How about, instead of bitching at them for not working fast enough for fuck all, we take 5 and show some love. Unless you want to learn how to code and bring years of experience to the table, oh, and buy a server too while your at it. so we can all spawn our righteous games :o


i am so hot
May 29, 2010 10:31
Min wrote:
Ah ok, your correct, your ipad post wasn't bitching, I apologize. Just seems like you complain alot. At least your somewhat articulate about it, which I do appreciate.

Min


Just to set this matter straight: I do appreciate the great effort Min puts into WinBolo. Without Min there is no WinBolo. Not only that, you don't get paid for your efforts. It is rare in this fucked up world of greed and hatred (aka capitalism) for people to do something for nothing.

I'm sure you will (NOT) enjoy all my posts: http://winbolo.net/forums/search.php?mode=results&term=&addterms=any&forum=all&search_author=ErYan&sortby=p.post_time&searchboth=both&submit=Search however you will note that I am not a complainer. If the forum is not for raising technical issues with WinBolo please let me know.

Please don't take it personally, I am on your side.

P.S. I didn't ask Min to write IBolo (c) ErYan 2010
May 29, 2010 12:41
It is rare in this fucked up world of greed and hatred (aka capitalism) for people to do something for nothing.


someone needs to cheer up :o

This advice was free. and im a capitalist :o

were not all bad....
May 29, 2010 16:07
jinx wrote:
It is rare in this fucked up world of greed and hatred (aka capitalism) for people to do something for nothing.


someone needs to cheer up :o

This advice was free. and im a capitalist :o

were not all bad....


Thanks, cheque's in the mail.
May 29, 2010 23:13
ErYan wrote:
Just to set this matter straight: I do appreciate the great effort Min puts into WinBolo. Without Min there is no WinBolo.


That's not true, Elvis created Winbolo, I just contributed some code.

Min
May 31, 2010 17:11
Can I push this thread back towards centre?

If I understand correctly, ErYan was complaining about a series of weird maps that include 4 shallow water squares around spawn points. This permits the strange and unusual tactic of walling-in these points so that spawners are trapped. It's been correctly stated that this is usually counterproductive for the team doing the walling.

Last night my team was winning on Skew Toy; in fact we had all but three of the enemy's pills. In fairness, the teams were unbalanced because they had the most experienced player partnered with a noob trainee.

Then I died and ... you guessed it, I ended up walled.

Like ErYan, I wanted back into the game in the worst way, so I'm spamming my partner "I'm walled NW HELP HELP HELP!" But then I realized that was exactly what the enemy wanted: they were lying in wait to zap him on his way to free me. He'd be a sitting duck in the boat; they'd kill him; he'd probably respawn in a walled start position and the game that we'd been dominating would suddenly be lost! So my spam went in the opposite direction: "Forget about me DON'T DIE!"

Being much more clever than me, he realized what was afoot and began to play a don't-you-dare-die game. It was by turns amusing and horrifying to watch the progress from my spectators' booth. I can liken it to an overtime period in the 7th game of the Stanley Cup with both goalie's pulled and everyone on their feet screaming. One death was all it would take to win or lose.

We won. Whew!

The point of this true tale is that walled spawn points sometimes make games very interesting. I didn't like being walled - not one bit. But I recognize and applaud the brilliant move of the enemy team leader who realized that it was their last and only chance.

Sometimes you're forced to be a spectator. Take a deep breath and watch the pros go at it.
May 31, 2010 17:40
I don't get this one bit .... just come in wide (out from deep sea) were the enemies can't shoot you, kill the back block from maximum range, and poof, your ally is free you can't get shot, whats the big issue?

Min
May 31, 2010 21:19
What's the problem?

Any time you're on a boat you're vulnerable. Whether embarking or returning it only takes one hit. In our scenario it was far safer to neglect the teammate (me) and tend the pills. Remember, the game was nearly over - 2 well-placed spikes away - and my contribution wasn't crucial.

Since the enemy had two players active, they had the option of sacrificing one of themselves by going tank-to-tank or boat-to-boat.

I'm not advocating walling the starts. At the beginning or middle of a game it's tactically stupid. As a Hail Mary move ... well, it might have worked.
Jun 01, 2010 04:07
Cmdr_X wrote:
Since the enemy had two players active, they had the option of sacrificing one of themselves by going tank-to-tank or boat-to-boat.

I'm not advocating walling the starts. At the beginning or middle of a game it's tactically stupid. As a Hail Mary move ... well, it might have worked.


And in a case were you are dominating your enemies like that, a well placed pillbox would prevent them from being able to tank to tank or boat to boat anything, and thus make freeing you that much simpler.

If they do choose to sit around camping trying to kill your ally when he comes to save you, then he's just wasting time anyways. Getting you back out would have been a simple thing for a competent ally.

Min
Jun 01, 2010 09:16
We played the map "No Way Through" today. The other team walled off the starting area so it was impossible to die, thus making it quite similar to the case above. Well the expletives were gushing like a waterfall.

Is this any different? In this map, it isn't called no way through for nothing - you basically can't get to your player.

Is this the same or different?
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