Was just wondering what the general concensus is with the tournament at this point. Do you reckon Sky and his associates are handling it well?
In my opinion its going pretty well, its had good coverage and not to many complaints from what I can see but then again I'm only a tiny representation of the rest of the community, maybe others feel totally different.
Have you been wronged in the whole tourny thing? If so speak up and air your grudges!
Ess-K :twisted:
I feel i can't reply b/c my response would be biased 8)
Sky
yes, but perhaps next time we can have news play newbs first so crappy playas (like me) (compared to the other players that signed up neway) ca have a better chance.
other wise it was an awesome idea.
I have to agree with Q on this one. A lot more people would have joined up if they could but obviously places were limited. If the league was split into two divisions, one for pros and the other for newbs then it would involve a lot more people and give more positive publicity to the game.
Maybe these can all be considered for the future if Sky decides to run another tourny which I'd yet again be happy to join. Keep up the good work my son!!!
Ess-K :twisted:
ya, but then people who are newbies (like ren) would bitch to the extreme if placed in the "newbie" category. Perhaps next time he should just increase the amount of allowable players (to for example, 32) and then try to pick people's placing less randomly, like sev vs indiana. so that people can be at least garuntee'd a hope in advancing
Min
No doubt there will be changes to the next one, IF there is a next one.
Stimpy and MadScout already expressed some displeasure with the random ranking, as our region had 4 overly strong players whilst other regions only had 1. A better initial ranking system will be in place next time.
Also, I feel the series should be upped to at least a best of 5 games, perhaps best of 7 for the semis and finals. In all but 1 completed matchup thus far, the series has ended with one person winning two in a row and thus winning the series.
I think the number of players right now is spot on. Not too many, not too few. Everyone has been playing their games on schedule and keeping the tournament moving along nicely.
Just as I'm sure there were changes to the IBL after the first time it was run, I'm positive there will be changes to this tournament system. After the Champion is crowned, we can all sit back and look at the bigger picture, analyze the stats, and take suggestions. I feel this has been a learning experience for those of us involved and "mad props" to skywalker for putting it together.
First the reason I ranked people randomly was b/c of people bitching about who they would be playing. It turns out there will be bitching no matter what. Second I didnt want to have more players sign up because I didnt want the tourny to take that long. Who am I to judge if someone is a newbie or not. I had initially said I would match up people to play people of their skill level and I was criticisized for that. Besides the whole point of me running this tourny was to determine who the best active 1x1er is today. I doubt a newbie is. It has already been going for a couple weeks. That also applies for the best of three series. It's hard enough getting two players together to play that, let alone make the time to play a possible five games. Lastly, I doubt I will run another tournament b/c as my mentor said someone will always bitch about something and I'm not really up to hear anymore of it. I'm glad the tourny is moving along smoothly. I'm also happy that everyone appreciates my efforts. I apologize for getting pissed but whatever. :roll:
sky
Everyone thinks the idea of a tournament sounds great, but no one likes to lose. The same people who complain endlessly in pick-up team matches about cheating, unfair teams, the world being unfair, glitches, etc., will complain all the more in a tournament because their losses will be a matter of public record.
Part of my problem with tournaments is that only the latter games really matter. Sure, you have the possibility of a couple of upsets along the way, but as Sticks indirectly pointed out with his observation that most of the series have ended 2-0, the beginning stages are largely ritualistic. They'd be completely ritualistic without random seeding -- Sev v. Indy is just about what you'd *want* if you were doing things by skill level. But again, as sky said, who is going to go out and rank people to determine their seeds? You can't just use their wbn rank, obviously. When I ran the tournament, I had round-robin groups of four from which two would advance. The players were initially divided into four skill pots from which one player was drawn for each initial group. That adds an element of randomness, but there's still bitching, because there's a big 'ol difference between the top player and the 6th-best player in each pot. Oddly enough, I found that the mid-level players were the ones who bitched the most. Newbies lost but hey, they expected to, and the roxors won. The mid-level people got the ego check they had coming to them, and didn't like it a whit.
For what it's worth, I think you're opening a Pandora's Chew Toy by even considering having a "newbie" division and a "non-newbie" division. Anyone on the cusp will probably choose to label themselves a newbie so as to get some self-validation. Good luck trying to tell them otherwise.
When it comes down to it, it's a somewhat rare game that goes off normally without a hitch. Trying to impose order throughout a whole tournament is like herding cats. And as Sky seems to be learning, a few people say thanks, and a lot more suggest how it could have been done better. Winbolo players are never short of criticism, constructive or otherwise. What they are capable of is going to amazing extents to protect their fragile egos, either by stacking teams, blaming allies, or both. The possibility that they got outplayed is pretty far down the list.
A final random thought: why does it matter if most of the good players are in one division? The only thing that matters, as far as "how your talent appears to the outside world" goes, is who you lose to in the end. If I lose to UD in the first round, I'm less embarassed than if I lose to Q-Man[DB] in the third.
Kax
Suggestion for next Tourney......
Ok everyone knows it hard to rank players, and I know what I am suggestion isnt perfect... But what about have all the losers from the first round go play their own losers tournament while the winners play theirs. Let the action of first round determine.... That way everyone would have atleast 2 rounds of actions, and both sides would have interesting matchups.... I know you could have for example a Madscout or Sticks playing in the loser side, but atleast some the newbs would have a chance....
PAWN.... Retired till next tourney or winbolo 1.14 is released.
I just thought I'd say .... I love you kax ....
Min
Stimpy proposed an idea to me that I'm sure some other people might've had.
After everyone was signed up, post the player list and have everyone cast their vote. By vote I mean take a survey and rank each player accordingly (no voting for yourself). After everyone has voted, add up the scores and average them. With 24 participants, it doesn't seem likely that there would be many collisions, i.e. two players with the exact same ranking.
After that comes the hard part of building the bracket system. As we've seen, there's many different ways of handling it. Most of the straight-forward ways people will complain but not as much as compared to the round robin, bucket, or loser bracket styles.
What it comes down to is this: do you want the better players eliminating each other early on, or later on? I'd rather see a Sev/UD matchup in the 3rd or 4th round rather than the 1st. And some people take into account how far you got in the tournament as indicative of your level of play. Have it where the lessers play the lessers and you'll see a peon make it to the 3rd round just because he beat someone that 50% of the community has no problem of beating.
I think there were more positives in this tournament than negatives. The fact that there was a tournament at all is the positive that outweighs all the negatives!
As far as people complaining because they weren't allowed to participate, I wouldn't worry too much about that. I believe there are 2 types of golf tournaments: Open and Invitational. Sky's tournament was an invitational winbolo tournament, because only players that he INVITED were able to play.
If someone wanted to organize an OPEN tournament, they could just take players on a first come first serve basis, and put the cutoff at 32 people or whatever.
Perhaps we could have several tournaments throughout the year. Sky could have his "Holiday Invitational" around november/december, and maybe someone else could run an open tournament like in the spring or something.
I do agree with sticks about the initial seeding though. A participants' poll to decide the rankings would be more fair, and more accurate (although no ranking would be perfect, this would come the closest)
uh huh, liz, you ask me for a game at 1 AM, is that avoiding? *ren is usually sleeping by then*, As for Minhiriath, wasn't the last time he saw me play almost one year ago now? Yep, it was about a year. Min can go around assuming what he wants and i cannot control that.. But basing facts without any objection as how and why is foolish and stupid * ren looks at min*. Further more, I think Minhiriath should stop bitching about him and his server locking.. In conclusion, Minhiriath should stfu, because I would bet on Q-snake beating Min in a 1x1. Trying to compare ol' Min to some of us now is just hilarious, keep up the sarcasm Minhiriath, we all need a laugh sometimes around in our life ;)
*ren wonders if Minhairyass can stick up for himself..*
lest take a walk down memory lane, your original name was LiL_B .. you first appeared on this forum, talking shit to everyone .... http://www.winbolo.net/playerinfo.php?name=LiL_B is a link to your old profile you were registered in april of this year .... holy crap .... you've only been playing for what 8 months? .... crawl back into your hole newbie boy.
Min
