A cry for help

Jan 09, 2004 01:05 A cry for help
I was playing with ren oscar and seth (I think) and I realized that I had gotten worse by an unfathomable level. will someone please tutor me and teach me some strategies?!?! I am a desperate man.
thank you
Knight A.K.A. the Wandering Jew
Jan 09, 2004 01:27 Re: A cry for help
Knight_who_Sux_Ass wrote:
I was playing with ren oscar and seth (I think) and I realized that I had gotten worse by an unfathomable level. will someone please tutor me and teach me some strategies?!?! I am a desperate man.
thank you
Knight A.K.A. the Wandering Jew




Ya know i think i need to be tutored too i just plain suck

We should make a server just for people who need/want tutoring
Jan 09, 2004 01:41
i reccommend three maps, that Min gave to me a while ago. Advanced Training Barrage, LGMkilling mine practice, and C-H-O-P-I-N. This maps will help you with tactics. as far as strategy it doesn't get better then this
http://www.lgm.com/bolo/guides/ I really reccommend Samhain's strategy guide. Don't forget that many people that used to be in the community and still are have webpages that will help. I think http://www.winbolo.us/ lists all of them. Good luck. remember practice makes perfect, so don't be afraid to 1x1 a severian, underdog, or min, that's when you'll learn the most
Jan 09, 2004 02:08
KWSA, I know EXACTLY how you feel. When I was playing bolo in 1995-1996, I was perhaps worse after 2 years than when I began.

This is why:

I never changed my keys. You CANNOT play good bolo without driving with one hand and mousing with the other.

I never concentrated. You can't play good bolo unless you concentrate and plan each move, even if the plan takes less than a second. (ALWAYS consider the possible outcomes of your actions)

RESIST the urge to play defensively. Go on the offense. Capture territory.

I didn't consider timing: Timing is everything. Count those pill shots. Learn the window of rebuilding your pills while the enemy is being hit, throwing off his/her aim.

Health! I play bolo POORLY after work on weekdays 'cause I'm tired. On the weekends, wow! Much better! (Though still not super) heh

Observation: Use tactics the pros use! Like doing a pill take and sending in another pill (while firing) to a spot near the dying two.

And 1,000 other things.
Jan 09, 2004 19:05
Skywalker: thank you for the maps; tangible training is imperitive at this point

Acro: WOW! I'm impressed! you sure did your homework with this post
the information is not only factual (probably for all I know considering I made this thread), but is concise and to the point. I appreciate that people are willing to help potential adversaries in games.

manditory random green smiley:
[Post smiley here--->] :mrgreen:
Jan 09, 2004 19:09
quick follow up for sky: where can I obtain these training maps?
manditory random green smiley:
[Post smiley here--->]
Jan 09, 2004 20:46
Knight_who_Sux_Ass wrote:
quick follow up for sky: where can I obtain these training maps?
manditory random green smiley:
[Post smiley here--->]


i can e-mail them or dcc them lemme know
Jan 09, 2004 21:03
skywalker wrote:
Knight_who_Sux_Ass wrote:
quick follow up for sky: where can I obtain these training maps?
manditory random green smiley:
[Post smiley here--->]


i can e-mail them or dcc them lemme know

Why not put it somewhere in the map collections?
Jan 09, 2004 22:45
skywalker wrote:
Knight_who_Sux_Ass wrote:
quick follow up for sky: where can I obtain these training maps?
manditory random green smiley:
[Post smiley here--->]


i can e-mail them or dcc them lemme know




Could u email them to me too?


My email is harrypotter4@cox.net
Jan 09, 2004 23:50
I would be glad to help teach you, if i'm good enough :/






-ren

renbot.winbolo.us
Jan 10, 2004 02:54
Elvis wrote:

Why not put it somewhere in the map collections?


the maps mentioned are and were in the map archive.

Min
Jan 10, 2004 03:00
Knight_who_Sux_Ass wrote:
Skywalker: thank you for the maps; tangible training is imperitive at this point


since sky is busy giving away my secrets, may as well point you to the place they are all described in great detail .... like 10 pages of how to get better at bolo blather.
http://www.cablelan.net/924/strategy.shtml
though in reality .. if you really want to get good ... memorize samhains strategy guide.
http://www.lgm.com/bolo/guides/samhain.html
Its really all you need ..... I've read it at least 7 times .... memorizing samhains is a good start ....

Min
Jan 10, 2004 03:06
and for those of you who are lazy ... here is the "novice" section of my strategy website ..

Novice:

Overview: winbolo is a top down view; tank strategy game, but you can't think of winbolo as simply a game, because its so much more, as a tank on the playing field you must act like you are a commander commanding his troops, all the same things apply, you must be considerate of terrain, traps, numbers vs skill, etc. all of these things combine make winbolo a game that can be enjoyed over and over, every time you play the game it can be a completely different experience that is the reason that I'm still playing this game long after I would have quit any other game.

Objective of the game: the objective of winbolo is to control all of the bases, so that your enemy can't refuel, this may or may not include owning all of the bases. you can do this in various ways, one is by simply capturing all of your enemies bases, the other ways include making it impossible for your opponent to refuel off the bases by placing your own pillbox's within range of the base in a way that they can't plant to refuel.

dying: In short, don't die. dying is a very bad thing in bolo, when you die it takes about 2-3 seconds to do the "death" animation, it takes another 2-3 seconds to put you at a starting point, which could be on the other side of the map from were your bases and pills are located. Once you get back to your bases, it takes 10-20 seconds to refuel, depending on how much you got hit while getting back, and how many mines you want. in this time, a good bolo player could have taken 2-3 pills from you if not more. In my experience I've had plenty of games were one single death is what tips the game to one sides favor, this can make running in to grab those dead enemy pills very dangerous.

basic takes: below are the basic horizontal takes, they can be done from any side.
*pictures removed*
below are the basic skewed takes.
*pictures removed*
here are the basic diagonal takes.
*pictures removed*

these takes are all the basic takes I think that belong here, later in the advanced tactics section there will be in-depth screenshots, etc of double takes, and other such tactics.

learning from your mistakes: In winbolo, the only way to improve is to recognize what you've done wrong, in most cases you don't know what you have done wrong and should ask the person who were playing against or even your ally what mistakes you made. Once you've identified the problems that you have, you can start working on fixing them. fixing problems can most of the time just come from practice, but knowing what your weakness' are is also very important, because if you know how your vulnerable, you can avoid playing the game that way. Or you can try to only play the game that way in an attempt to improve those particular skills.

dodging: one thing people don't mention much, is the ability to dodge, if you can easily dodge tank fire, and pillbox fire, you will most likely to do well. one of the ways to become a good player is to not die, to not die means you have to work on not getting hit. this is were dodging comes into play I recommend making a map that has 2-3 pills in the middle of deep water, with a starting point close by, loading this map in practice, and then practice driving up and swerving in between these pills if you can do this for long periods without dieing, you will improve your basic dodging ability. without the simple ability to drive from what side of the map to the other without getting very hurt, it makes getting placed at a start point far from your own side a very real hazard. with good dodging skills you can minimalize this danger

taking pills with blocks: one thing people forget, is that pills can be taken with blocks as well as other pills, with less risk setting up blocks can sometimes take longer than the standard one pill as a block take, but if you are quick, you can plant a block, attack, turn to dodge while planting another block to finish off the pill, it can be quite effective at taking pills from peoples pill lines without worrying about losing a pill if you screw up. it can also create terrain changes that can help make assaulting your line a lot harder if used properly.

base running: base running is important, depending on your enemy (some opponents whine a lot if you base run in certain ways) you need to grab at least half the easy to obtain bases, on a map like chew toy 3 there is only 6 easy bases on each half, after this point its up to you weither you get the the other harder to get bases, normally I get them after clearing some of the pills guarding them. good dodging skills are essential for base running properly, another important thing is you must not die on your base run, dieing on your base run can put you on the other side of the map completely, this can completely destroy your start, and against a strong opponent, this is fatal.

dog fighting: dog fighting in winbolo is marginal at best, my first piece of advice is to avoid it if you can if you have to chase after someone, it is likely that a lot of your bullets will miss, even if they look like they hit, due to the nature of winbolo's networking architecture. its best to try to aim in front of your enemy tank by the amount of time you think the game is lagging, under heavy lag dog fighting is impossible sometimes its best to plant a pill, and heat it instead of hopping your flailing shots will hit your enemy enough to kill him. also, when trying to kill an enemy tank, don't underestimate the value of mines, a few well placed mines can often kill an enemy tank a lot faster than shooting them can. not to mention its always satisfying to know you killed your enemy due to a mine :)

teamwork: Teamwork is a key aspect of winbolo, without teamwork, the game is a lot less fun and sometimes very frustrating. The main aspect of team work is called decoying. decoying is essentially when one tank gets in a position that it will cause the enemy pill to shoot at them instead of the person shooting the pill, weither this by hiding behind a pill, a group of blocks, a enemy tank, or just running around without any of these things trying to attract fire. sometimes you can hide behind a ally pill while your ally shoots a enemy pill and take out 2 enemy pills that you couldn't normally double take, this is referred to as a double decoy or "dd" I will add in screenshots later if I have time. using proper teamwork, a couple of players can easily defeat any team not using teamwork. another thing you must realize is that you have to know your role, in a team, you have to take the role offered to you before the team can properly move forward, if your the strong player, you can't expect your weaker ally to lead the way, you must take the lead, if your ally is spiking, you have to fall in and help them. you can't ignore what your ally is doing. its very important to pay close attention to what is going on, on your own team.

refueling off spiked bases: refueling off of spiked bases is a essential skill that is required in a lot of situations one of the basic ways of doing this is by planting a block in between the enemy pill and your base. another way is to move back and forth just enough to cause the enemy pill to miss you, this is sometimes tricky and not as effective as just planting a block, but if you don't have your lgm its useful. now sometimes you will have to refuel off a base that your enemy has places a pill directly beside, do not fear, you can still get ammo from this base, the easiest method is by planting a block behind you, so the pill can't force you off the base, and then sitting on it, the pill will hit you, you will refuel one armor and then a few bullets, it will hit you again, etc until the base has no armor, or until your tank is full it takes twice as long as usual to refuel fully this way, I recommend only refueling enough to take the spiking pill.

keysetup: The default key setup is not very good, a good key setup has to have a few elements, one of these is the ability to drive with one hand, and mouse with the other hand this will allow you to release your builder for a pill plant or repair while still maneuvering or dodging this is required for you to become a good player if you stay with default keys you will be unable to move while repairing, this will allow people to know when you will release your builder and kill it almost every time. another thing a good key setup requires is the ability to easily scroll, I personally scroll more than I drive scrolling allows you to see what's going on around you. its very satisfying to know someone doesn't scroll manually and then use this knowledge to sneak up on them and kill them while they are trying a pill take. my personal keys are e,d,s,f for movement t for tank view, g for pillview, shift for mining, space for shoot. these are all on one hand, so I can mine,shoot,drive, and change views all with one hand, all at the same time if I choose. the other hand is keypad 8,4,6,5 for manual scrolling (this is were my hand rests while I'm not mousing) keypad + and enter for changing gunsight range. I chose these because they are huge, and hard to miss if I need to flail my fingers about looking for them, and because I can actually hit these keys while my hand is on the mouse, which is also useful. I chose the keypad because its closer to the mouse than the arrows making less arm movement to switch between them.
Jan 11, 2004 19:10
no comments? .. heh

Min
Jan 11, 2004 19:16
It's good material. :)
Jan 11, 2004 19:51
aye, good job minny.
Jan 11, 2004 19:54
ya, I gave up on it awhile back becuase I thought it was crap ...... but rereading it now .... looks like most of it was sound material. Just had some flow issues. I had intended for the entire strategy section of my website to be an ongoing thing, and I would refine and change it as time went on, whats on there now was really a "rough" copy of what I had hoped to have.

Min
Jan 13, 2004 20:30
:idea: And for the more adventurous, here is a different key set up that I found highly, if not more, effective:
__________tank control___________
accelerate: up
decelerate: down
left: left
right: right
__________gun range___________
increase: =
decrease:-
__________weapons control___________
shoot: space
mine: tab or M
__________viewing control___________
tank: T
pillbox: P
__________scrolling control___________
up: ;
down: / (for some reason if I type "/" it shows up as "\" in the box...odd)
left: k
right: L

try it! the system is logical, confined to a more convenient, smaller area of the keyboard, and well-thought-out 8)
Jan 13, 2004 20:44
Zoso wrote:
:idea: And for the more adventurous, here is a different key set up that I found highly, if not more, effective:
__________tank control___________
accelerate: up
decelerate: down
left: left
right: right
__________gun range___________
increase: =
decrease:-
__________weapons control___________
shoot: space
mine: tab or M
__________viewing control___________
tank: T
pillbox: P
__________scrolling control___________
up: ;
down: / (for some reason if I type "/" it shows up as "\" in the box...odd)
left: k
right: L

try it! the system is logical, confined to a more convenient, smaller area of the keyboard, and well-thought-out 8)


I think some of your keys are too spaced out. this is what i use
Left Hand
E:accelerate
D: decelerate
S: counter-clockwise
F: clockwise
T: tank view
G: pill view
space bar: shoot
Right Hand
- : increase gunsight
+ : decrease gunsight
8: scroll up
5: scroll down
4: scroll left
6: scroll right
right arrow key: mine (perfect while driving and scrolling to just use your thumb) I vouche for killing many red tanks this way 8)
Jan 13, 2004 21:08
Zoso wrote:

try it! the system is logical, confined to a more convenient, smaller area of the keyboard, and well-thought-out 8)


let me pick apart your apparently logical key setup. first off, if you mouse right hand side, it will mean you have to move your hand off the tank driving keys to mouse, this will mean that while your using your lgm, your movement stops .. BAD idea ... bad bad bad bad bad idea .... if you mouse lefthand .... you have to move your hand/arm half the length of the keyboard to get to your mouse ... which means you can't make fast lgm movements. also ... your - and = means your fingers are not near those keys at all times ... can you mouse while moving your gunsight (without having a program that lets you use your scroll wheel). on another note, you must have very very very small fingers if you think having M for mine is a good plan with that keysetup .... look at the scroll keys your using, that means you will have a unrelaxed hand while scrolling, and you will have a hard time mining/shooting due to your weird hand position .... perhaps you have 6 fingers on that hand .. most people do not. Also, people who know what they are doing realize that tank and pillview are extremely important keys to use .. and should be used constantly to keep an eye on your enemy .... your tank and pillview buttons are nowhere near each other..... quite honestly ..... this "more adventurous" keysetup is almost as bad as the default key setup.

now lets analyze my keysetup .. which happens to be the one skywalker uses as well.... edsf for movement ... this could be changed to any keys in that shape on your keyboard .... I choose edsf becuase on my keyboard it allows for relaxed fingers while resting my hands on those keys, it also happens to be the keys I use for first person shooter games, so the change was very easy. T and G for pillview and tank view .... these are extremely close to the movement keys, chances are you won't be moving as much while pillviewing so movement is not as critical, and the keys are so close you can simply slip your finger from f to g(pillview) without any effort at all, I use shift for mine becuase thats were my pinky finger naturally rests, i've been people use ctrl, or capslock ... it all depends on where your little finger likes to be, comfort is really important for a good keysetup. from here we move to the otherside of the keyboard ... I like having my arms and fingers apart, becuase they arn't cramped, and I can more easily relax, having a cramped keysetup will make it hard for you to play for any extended period of time. I use the keypad becuase its not many buttons on it, all close together, allowing me to put other functions on that hand, and also the keypad is very close to my mouse, so its trivial to move my hand from the keypad to the mouse as needed. I scroll 75 percent of the time I've controling things, even when my tank is sitting still, I'm constantly scrolling .... its only after you've had a few people backdoor banditize you that you realize this is extremely important, I watch my back as I do pilltakes ... nothing more embarrassing as having someone sneak up behind you and kill you while your doing a double take ..... then them getting everything ..... I use keypad plus and enter for gunsight movement becuase the keys are very large, and its were my pinky finger naturally rests .... it also allows me to manuver my gunsight while my hand is on the mouse ...... "this" is a logical keysetup ..... I see no reason why yours is zoso ...this keysetup is of course for someone using righthand mouse .... anyone who uses lefthand mouse will have to ponder the options a little better ... perhaps switch which side you scroll with?..

Min

p.s. with a keysetup like yours zoso .. you will probably never become more than an average player .. becuase people will take advantage of the weakness's in your movements. just ask skywalker the benifits of a good keysetup.
Jan 13, 2004 21:19
Aye, Zoso. Min's right. Until I get a surgically - implanted third arm, hand #1 will be for driving and shooting and mining, and hand #2 For mousing and scrolling. I'm confident that you cannot play truly well without differentiating these tasks. (Although I still haven't mastered the gunsight thing.)
Jan 13, 2004 21:57
Acro wrote:
Aye, Zoso. Min's right. Until I get a surgically - implanted third arm, hand #1 will be for driving and shooting and mining, and hand #2 For mousing and scrolling. I'm confident that you cannot play truly well without differentiating these tasks. (Although I still haven't mastered the gunsight thing.)


well, what I find the biggest hurdle for developing good gunsight movement is getting your fingers used to moving to the gunsight ... burning those pathways into your brain as it were ... To do this I use a map called LGM Killing - Mine Practice One, this map is simply a island covered in mines, in a fairly symetrically fashion, play this map using your gunsight to shoot the mines, as much as you can, play this map through killing all the mines 7ish times and I garuntee you will be better at using your gunsight. if you can't find this map (which is possible) send me an email and I'll send it to you.
Jan 14, 2004 03:52
oh it seems i forgot to mention that the numbers 8456 i use to scroll with are on the number pad and not above the letters, silly me. but perhaps zoso could pull off that key setup. and Min is right, i used to drive with the qa for accelerate break and op for clockwise and counter clockwise movement, using two hands on that area of my keyboard killed me. using two hands too drive period was ridiculous. I became good enough so people would ally me in games, but when sheeps and min convinced me i need to change my keys and i did at first it was so uncomfortable. but in under a weeks time i could rebuild while driving which i could never do before. now, i have reached a new level that i never could have acheived with that set up. maybe elvis should make the default key set up the same as Min and I and pretty much every vet. If you don't change your key setup, you will reach a plataeu and never get better. trust me
Jan 15, 2004 06:18
what was suggested in a different post, but after thinking about, would revolutionize game playing, is allowing mouse wheel to move gun sight, and right click to activate window scrolling (either click once change it to scroll mode and click again turns it off, or holding right click allows you to scroll)

this would make it so you 2 hands NEVER have to move... which would rox
Jan 15, 2004 07:53
underdog wrote:
what was suggested in a different post, but after thinking about, would revolutionize game playing, is allowing mouse wheel to move gun sight, and right click to activate window scrolling (either click once change it to scroll mode and click again turns it off, or holding right click allows you to scroll)

this would make it so you 2 hands NEVER have to move... which would rox


wouldn't be hard to program that functionality into a borg..... I know someone who has programmed that scrolling thing already.

Min
1 2 Next »
Page 1 of 2 (28 posts total)