Standards Changed??

When did it become acceptable for a reputable player to join a game in progress in a non-password STRICT games and start deforesting the whole map WITHOUT even taking part in the game (that is they didn't join either side)?

When has it become UNacceptable to wall in a players's lgm? I walled in a player's lgm in a strict non-pw game (in the same game as above) who then ranted on and on to me about how I should not have walled their lgm because they had no base and no pbs (apparently at the time they weren't allied with the opponents) and thus in the next game they would enact revenge by carpet mining me. This was also a different reputable long time player making this charge.

Have the standards of good sportmanship/common decency from reputable players changed That much in two months?

LGM walling is one of the greatest skills ever. Twas prolly some worthless n00b, fi, who was too lazy to shoot it.

Madd Maxx wrote:

LGM walling is one of the greatest skills ever. Twas prolly some worthless n00b, fi, who was too lazy to shoot it.

umm. I'm the one who walled that lgm. The other guy definetely not a noob, he was a long time member of the community.

Well FI, Who was it?

I don't think he really needs to say.

The point is, people need to re-evaluate their sportsmanship.

no shit, but i would still like to know who it was. (ud?)

FireIce wrote:

When has it become UNacceptable to wall in a players's lgm? I walled in a player's lgm in a strict non-pw game (in the same game as above) who then ranted on and on to me about how I should not have walled their lgm because they had no base and no pbs (apparently at the time they weren't allied with the opponents) and thus in the next game they would enact revenge by carpet mining me. This was also a different reputable long time player making this charge.

Have the standards of good sportmanship/common decency from reputable players changed That much in two months?

Well that happend to me (My LGM was walled) while our base was spiked in a tourny. I got mad but who doesnt i just asked for help (it doesnt matter if you ask the bad guys)


DD

well to me haveing no lgm due to a ''glitch'' i guess u can say; is kinda messed up. but its like farming before a go. not really ileagle but not exactly accepted. this my view on the subject. its also one thing to wall an lgm were some one can not really get to it during a game. if i do wall in a builder...it would be on some sort of nutral ground. but i guess every one has different opnions on whats acceptable and unacceptable but dont let lgm walling twist your tit. shit happens and theres always gunna be one fat guy at the beach wearing a speedo. so get over it.



peace

-FuBaR-

LGM walling in and killing IS acceptable, it is a valuble (and incredably difficult, sometimes) skill. Anyone whom whines about this is pathetic.

Madd Maxx wrote:

LGM walling is one of the greatest skills ever. Twas prolly some worthless n00b, fi, who was too lazy to shoot it.

this was your first post....see above how alike it was to your 2nd post. looks like your not known for your comprehetion skills.


walling in an lgm might be acceptible to u....but not to others. and all that MM says is not law. look at it this way. if u see walling in someones lgm unacceptable and u dont do it on account of principle, when someone does it to u. u might feel bitter.


ps. never try to smash a beer can inbetween your ass cheaks. u will cut your ass.

Here's my take on walling in LGM. I stated it the last time this topic came up.

Once "go" has been called, if you CAN do it, you MAY do it.

Winbolo doesn't have unbiased neutral referees to police things that some people consider "unfair", nor does the software have the capability of "turning back the clock" and undoing the "unfair" act". We have to accept the game itself as the official rules and enforcer of those rules.

If we want those rules changed, we have to go to the software to do it. (Such as let a lgm slide out of a wall, or limit mining in some way.) It would be up to Elvis. But Elvis is commited to making it a clone of mac bolo, so he probably won't make such drastic changes, and that's fine.

What if we had an international winbolo federation, with a competition commitee?? Then they could vote on such issues, much like internation rules of sports are decided by commitees on international governing boards for each sport. Yes I'm daydreaming here, but what if...

FireIce wrote:

When did it become acceptable for a reputable player to join a game in progress in a non-password STRICT games and start deforesting the whole map WITHOUT even taking part in the game (that is they didn't join either side)?

When has it become UNacceptable to wall in a players's lgm? I walled in a player's lgm in a strict non-pw game (in the same game as above) who then ranted on and on to me about how I should not have walled their lgm because they had no base and no pbs (apparently at the time they weren't allied with the opponents) and thus in the next game they would enact revenge by carpet mining me. This was also a different reputable long time player making this charge.

Have the standards of good sportmanship/common decency from reputable players changed That much in two months?

quite honestly ... I blame you for this change in "standards" ..... having an enviroment were noone gets "punished" for doing things that are unacceptable ... means that people will start ignoring the "rules"

Min

ps. enjoy the enviroment you've created yet? .... I know i find it amusing.

That, ladies and gentlemen, was a prime example of a little something I like to call 'flamebait".

Lol, Min, Min, Min, you always blame shit on others. You've fucked up shit here just as much as FyreYce. Anyways, if LGM walling was soooooooo unacceptable, ytf does the game let u do it? I will continue to wall in any enemy lgm i can! :D:D:D

Nova wrote:

That, ladies and gentlemen, was a prime example of a little something I like to call 'flamebait".

since I had no intention of replying to anything fi said about it ... it actually wasn't .... not like I've been on this forum much lately...

Min

Madd Maxx wrote:

Lol, Min, Min, Min, you always blame shit on others. You've fucked up shit here just as much as FyreYce. Anyways, if LGM walling was soooooooo unacceptable, ytf does the game let u do it? I will continue to wall in any enemy lgm i can! :D:D:D

what have I fucked up? ... I'm perfectly willing to take the blame for things I actually did ..... I know things that I've done .... but the question is.... what are you talking about in particular? ....

Min

p.s. one of those things that I think was a mistake ... was putting passwords on the bots ...

Nova and MM: very good points you've made.

Min, when are you going to stop complaining about the fact you're no longer the iron-fist dictator of WinBolo?

We're having a good discussion here on good sportmanship and here you are hijacking this thread for your own personal vendetta. The topic of this thread is "What are the bound of good sportmanship in a game". Start your own thread if you want to discuss something else.

Anyway about the topic this thread is about. I talked with one of the person who did one of the things above (the deforesting when he wasn't even involved in the game). It was interesting - I still disagree with that person, but I understand his point of view. It was basically that the game was already messed up - that it was a FFA where people were already deforesting each other and so he didn't see why he had to restraing himself when other people were already messing the game up. I don't agree with this logic, but from his view point I can see.

[18:04] <1stGuy> and you missed my point
[18:04] <1stGuy> :P
[18:05] <1stGuy> I didnt deforest cuz others were
[18:05] <1stGuy> i harvested trees cuz 1) I was in the game longer then you so just as much "in" it
[18:05] <1stGuy> and 2) it was messed up so it was not effecting a "real" team game
[18:06] <1stGuy> also 3) the 'other' team was noobs, so with a vet, on the team with half map and more pills was an easy win
[18:06] <FireIce> why don't u post that
[18:06] <1stGuy> just thought it up
[18:06] <FireIce> I only had half the pills
[18:06] <FireIce> not more
[18:06] <1stGuy> just read it
[18:06] <1stGuy> more yes
[18:06] <1stGuy> but those kids were noobs
[18:06] <1stGuy> shoting eachother etc
[18:07] <1stGuy> mining the heck out of east
[18:07] <1stGuy> it was crazy
[18:07] <1stGuy> if ya like
[18:07] <1stGuy> I just don't follow logic, "well he did it first"
[18:07] <FireIce> k
[18:08] <1stGuy> I just saw game as wacked and a good time to mess around
[18:08] <1stGuy> not a real game
[18:08] <1stGuy> (where we disagree)
[18:08] <FireIce> k I'm going to post all of this

mmmm, flamez

Who is this "1stGuy" character? I don't believe I've seen him around. :D

FireIce wrote:

When did it become acceptable for a reputable player to join a game in progress in a non-password STRICT games and start deforesting the whole map WITHOUT even taking part in the game (that is they didn't join either side)?

Well, it depends on the player really. Would I like it if it happened? No, of course not. But if the game isn't passworded and if it isn't locked then thats almost like inviting stupidity in. Most un-pw'd games usually turn into free-for-alls with more than 2 teams playing, especially in larger games. Just accept you got shafted in that game and move on, FireIce.

FireIce wrote:

When has it become UNacceptable to wall in a players's lgm? I walled in a player's lgm in a strict non-pw game (in the same game as above) who then ranted on and on to me about how I should not have walled their lgm because they had no base and no pbs (apparently at the time they weren't allied with the opponents) and thus in the next game they would enact revenge by carpet mining me. This was also a different reputable long time player making this charge.

This one is just as notorious as the tree-killing in stale-mated games. It's a tactic that is VERY hard to overcome when used correctly. One vet I know immediately seceeds when someone walls in his LGM.

The thing here is again, not whether you're able to do it but if you should. It's all about sportsmanship and maybe being traditional. We hate when these things our done to us yet we still carry out these tactics when we are able to and think they'll be of some use.

With every new version it seems the community loses some of its seasoned players. With 1.10 I think it was, shotty and Mac were two of the more notable losses. By the time version 1.09 was rolled out, many of the elders with the likes of Gandalf, sloth, and bumps had walked away. Sure vets do come back (Severian, Spartacus and palp for a short period) but the trend is on the decline. I tend to think it is this loss of seasoned and honorable players that has put the stupidity of the community on the rise.

Sticks wrote:

I tend to think it is this loss of seasoned and honorable players that has put the stupidity of the community on the rise.

Perhaps so, but I think winbolo is experiencing 'rotationality' as well. Vets may be quitting, but newer players may be future vets: Onani, Spintega, Winger, FUBAR, Jasanimi, etc. Time will tell.

Sticks wrote:

The thing here is again, not whether you're able to do it but if you should. It's all about sportsmanship and maybe being traditional. We hate when these things our done to us yet we still carry out these tactics when we are able to and think they'll be of some use.

With every new version it seems the community loses some of its seasoned players. With 1.10 I think it was, shotty and Mac were two of the more notable losses. .

This may belong in another forum but i think it's relavent, particularly with lgm walling. Were you NOT able to wall in lgm in previous versions?? I think my first version of winbolo was 1.10, and you could do it on that. But I don't remember being able to wall in lgm on Mad Bolo. I could be wrong, it's been 7 years since I've played Mac Bolo.

Like i said before, I believe that once "go" is called, if you CAN do it, you MAY do it. However, I sure wish you couldn't wall in lgm like that. It takes too much away from the game. It's like if you had a rule in hockey that says if you score a goal from beyond the blue line it's worth 5 points. Won't happen often, but when it does it gets the game out of reach for one team (or back in it even if they've played like crap).

Lol, I, personally, like the "If u can do it, DO IT" theorem. Lgm walling is quite fair, as they can EASILY kill their lgm or have their ally kill their lgm. Some ppl also have problems with mining (I have no idea why, tis an important skill that we need to revive!), hence they do not use hidden mines. I LOVE hidden mines, there is just nothing more satisfying than chasing your enemy who is frantically rushing back to his base carrying four pills with three life points left, who suddenly notices that he just got killed by a few strategically placed hidden mines.... :twisted:

FireIce wrote:

Min, when are you going to stop complaining about the fact you're no longer the iron-fist dictator of WinBolo?

you see .. thats the problem fi, I never was a dictator. Second of all, If I gave a crap about that .. why did I leave in June of 2003 ... oh ya .. I remeber ... becuase some people who I thought were FRIENDS ... stabbed me repeatedly in the back ....... you want me to forget that? .... sorry bud, its not going to happen ....

FireIce wrote:

We're having a good discussion here on good sportmanship and here you are hijacking this thread for your own personal vendetta. The topic of this thread is "What are the bound of good sportmanship in a game". Start your own thread if you want to discuss something else.

what I said was perfectly relevant to this conversation ... why don't we talk about it? ... why don't we talk about how not being able to "punish" players makes it so they misbehave .. thats what this post is about after all .. players thinking its ok to disobey the set rules for playing team games ... why is that? ... becuase they have no bloody reason not to ... its not like your going to do anything about it ..... or if you try you'll be branded a "dictator" and everyone will just move to a different server and have someone post all the passwords regularly ......sound familiar? .... every action has a reaction .... and your seeing those reactions now. This has nothing to do with my personal vendetta .. it has nothing to do with my extreme dislike for you ..... it has to do with the issue you posted about ... so why don't you respond to what I said instead of trying to blow it off using the "Min's just attacking me becuase he doesn't like me" defense.

FireIce wrote:

Anyway about the topic this thread is about. I talked with one of the person who did one of the things above (the deforesting when he wasn't even involved in the game). It was interesting - I still disagree with that person, but I understand his point of view. It was basically that the game was already messed up - that it was a FFA where people were already deforesting each other and so he didn't see why he had to restraing himself when other people were already messing the game up. I don't agree with this logic, but from his view point I can see.

and why has his viewpoint developed? ..... becuase noone has been able to say .. "This is how to act ..... if you don't, you will be punished ... these are the punishments" ....

Min

p.s. I look forward to you actually replying to what I've said ... rather than avoiding the issue completely .............