Nobel Peace Prize Nominee to be executed?

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20050202/42005e50_3ca6_1552620050202-1414122793

32 years ago this guy is charged with murdering four people. He claims he didnt do it, and there alot of evidence that he did not. he goes to jail, changes his life around and starts writing childrens books warning kids about how bad gangs are. He gets nominated for a nobel preace prize. And now he could be executed?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3070463.stm

He said his conviction was based on "hearsay" from witnesses - who claimed to have heard him bragging of the crimes - who had either been beaten or bribed into making their statements.

One witness, Samuel Coleman, had his ribs fractured and later said he was so scared he would have told the police anything. The prosecution later admitted it had been an "illegal interrogation".

Ive always thought the purpose of prison is first to keep dangerous people off of the streets at the least. If possible, to turn their life around, make them a "good person" if you will. I really dont think punishment should be a priority, for many reasons. Anyways, I think his life has obviously been turned around. And he committed this crime when he was twenty or so, now hes fifty, i really dont see how he could possibly be the same person.

"Since 1990 Amnesty International has documented executions of juvenile offenders in six countries: Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the United States of America (USA) and Yemen. The country which has carried out the greatest number of known executions is the USA."

Do you have an opinion on this case? Should he be executed, should he be improsoned for life, or should he be set free? Do you have a opinion on the Death Penalty as a whole?

the guy is the fucking founder of the CRIPS..

how many people have been killed, maybe not by this man alone, but because of his doing.

HE IS THE FUCKING FOUNDER OF A WORLD KNOWN STREET GANG..

i thought you were retarded about your homosexual remarks about your gay marriage bullshit...

Listen faggot... go marry your tinklebell girlfriend named fred... and just Shut the fuck up..

oh ya.. he should have his cock hammered to a picnic table, in a big log cabin... and set the cabin on fire..

he should die a disturbing, disgusting, horrible death.

I agree with dz, although I wouldn't have worded it that way! :D I don't care if you live 32,000 years and you killed at 20. You still must pay for your crime. The death penalty is justice. I have always supported it and always shall.

And Jo-C, these are hot topics you're posting. Usually, it just causes alot of tension in our community. This can be a good thing, (fosters discussion and constructive argument), but I suggest doing this only once in a while.

dz wrote:

the guy is the fucking founder of the CRIPS..

how many people have been killed, maybe not by this man alone, but because of his doing.

HE IS THE FUCKING FOUNDER OF A WORLD KNOWN STREET GANG..

i thought you were retarded about your homosexual remarks about your gay marriage bullshit...

Listen faggot... go marry your tinklebell girlfriend named fred... and just Shut the fuck up..

LOL. thanks for making my day. :)

dZ is okay, but he's under a lot of stress. 5,000 or so neo-Nazis want their arrogance back and they're right on his heels.

Acro wrote:

I agree with dz, although I wouldn't have worded it that way! :D I don't care if you live 32,000 years and you killed at 20. You still must pay for your crime. The death penalty is justice. I have always supported it and always shall.

And Jo-C, these are hot topics you're posting. Usually, it just causes alot of tension in our community. This can be a good thing, (fosters discussion and constructive argument), but I suggest doing this only once in a while.

Fair enough, I almost didnt post the gay marriage thread since I had posted the other two already. Im not planning on posting any more.

Look at yourself now, then look at yourself ten years ago. Then imagine thirty years ago (unless you are fifty this isnt gonna work too well). Yes, I realize this argument is a little old, but I believe it still holds merit. I understand your point, and realize you wont be changed, so since I have no proof you are wrong Im willing to agree to disagree.


dz: He is not responsible for the actions of others. Im sure you are about 15 now, due to your poor grammar, speeling, heated remarks, and acute homophobia, in ten years think about today, just think about it for awhile. LOL. BTW: even if he had not started the CRIPS, there is no evidence there would be less street gangmembers or violence. Note also that during the same time the Bloods were started. If the Crips werent started one of the hundreds of other gangs would have replaced it.

JokingClown wrote:

"Since 1990 Amnesty International has documented executions of juvenile offenders in six countries: Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the United States of America (USA) and Yemen. The country which has carried out the greatest number of known executions is the USA."

Do you have an opinion on this case? Should he be executed, should he be improsoned for life, or should he be set free? Do you have a opinion on the Death Penalty as a whole?

Well...That might be true however, the quote you quoted even says, "known executions." What does THAT mean? The USA has more executions that what the other countries officially reported? What about the unofficial executions? That quote is a piss-poor attempt at painting the US in a negative light. Are they even looking at the per-capita execution rate or over-all numbers? I mean, the US is a tad larger than those other countries - DUH!

Also, in those countries (other than the US) listed there, freedom of religion is banned. They are, in effect, theocracies. It is not uncommon for Christians to be beat to death and to have their churches burned to the ground in places like Iran. So before trying to quote some bleeding heart organization with some garbage like that against the US, consider all the facts. In fact, consider these facts:

Nigeria: “...Even though Muslim leaders promised Christians that Shariah Law would only apply to Muslims, officials in Kano State have closed 122 Christian schools, because they refused to pay the school tax, teach Islam, enforce the Islamic dress code, and hire an Islamic teacher... Attacks against Christians have become frequent since the implementation of Shariah Law began in 1999. In February 2002, an entire youth choir was hacked to death in their church, and their bodies were burned...”

Saudi Arabia: “...Christians have been arrested on false charges, imprisoned, and even beheaded because of their faith. Even foreign Christians visiting Saudi Arabia are not allowed to meet together and worship...”

(All material from www.persecution.com – if you’d like, I’d be happy to find the same information on other web sites as well to verify.)

Shall I go on about the other three countries – Pakistan, Yemen and Iran? I didn’t think so. You know as well as I do that they aren’t any better at human rights - especially as it relates to Christians. Hmmm...the US don’t seem like such a bad place after all.

As far as the execution goes, you do the crime you do the time. I do believe that people can turn their lives around and make amends of some sort as this gentleman has but that still does not justify ignoring justice. Justice not only ought to be rendered to the plaintiff but the victims as well along with the countless thousands of others that have suffered as a result of the formation of the Cripps.

-DAllen

Yes, there are plenty of corrupt governments that have murdered plenty of people. In a way , it does paint the US in a bad light, but it isnt supposed t be manipulative. What it is supposed to show is the ireland, sweden, australia, canada, norway, germany, italy, england, switzerland, and other so-called 1st world civilized countries have all recently banned execution of 17 year olds and younger. (semi recently at least). Those countries that I have listed, some have them have executed 14 year olds, etc, while America has only executed 17 year olds(more then one, quite a few i think).

In comparison to most other "modern" civilized countries America is quite conservative, and I have a feeling we will follow in their foot steps soon enough, as we did with womens rights and slaveery (sometimes America likes to proclaim itself the leader in freedom, but it just isnt true). I also predict that we will allow gay marriage soon as well, a few years after most of the other first wolrd countries did, not suprisingly.

dz wrote:

Listen faggot... go marry your tinklebell girlfriend named fred... and just Shut the fuck up..

u are obviously a faggot. posting 15 paragraph essay about gay marriage and how you agree with it..

and im 24... and my SPEELing is fine... sorry i type your when it should be you're..

let me rephrase so you UNDERSTAND... YOU'RE A FAG. is that better ?

and my grammer.. i didnt think i was in english class.. my mistake Miss.

should i be hitting shift when i say i ?

go marry your tinklebell girlfriend named fred

And you say you are 24?

Ok fine im gay, you are smart, you win. I dont argue with 13 year olds.

JokingClown wrote:

Yes, there are plenty of corrupt governments that have murdered plenty of people. In a way , it does paint the US in a bad light, but it isnt supposed t be manipulative.

But it IS manipulative and you have proven it because you never answered my initial question...Is that execution number PER CAPITA RATE or OVERALL NUMBERS? That quote is like saying , "Oh my gosh, there are 290k Americans in insane assylums and there's only 20k Canadians in assylums. HOLY CRAP WHY ARE AMERICANS GOING SO CRAZY?"

Well let's just say (for the sake of arguement) America only has 290 million people within it's borders and Canada only has 20 million. Guess what...the per capita rate of crazy people in either country IS THE SAME. So the initial question of, "why are the Americans going crazy" looks pretty stupid. Now do you see the rediculous nature of that quote from Amnesty International?

(Yes I am crazy and no I am not in an assylum. They just haven't caught me yet. :wink: )

JokingClown wrote:

What it is supposed to show is the ireland, sweden, australia, canada, norway, germany, italy, england, switzerland, and other so-called 1st world civilized countries have all recently banned execution of 17 year olds and younger. (semi recently at least). Those countries that I have listed, some have them have executed 14 year olds, etc, while America has only executed 17 year olds(more then one, quite a few i think).

In comparison to most other "modern" civilized countries America is quite conservative, and I have a feeling we will follow in their foot steps soon enough, as we did with womens rights and slaveery (sometimes America likes to proclaim itself the leader in freedom, but it just isnt true). I also predict that we will allow gay marriage soon as well, a few years after most of the other first wolrd countries did, not suprisingly.

If that means being the leader in freedom then I want no part of it. I would much rather we hold on to our conservative ways. First of all the dude isn't 17 anymore. Second, would it be better if the guy committed the crime when he was 18? Is that the issue? Give me a break. The maturity difference between 17 and 18 year olds is non-existent. I know first hand because I have worked with teenagers in our church's youth group for the last 9 years. So some countries don't execute before the age of 18. We just happen to draw the line *rarely* one year earlier.

So, in those other wonderful 1st world countries...Hows the spread of STD's going? How about drug addiction? How about the rates of suicide and crime? I honestly have no idea how they compare to the US but I seriously doubt they're doing any better with more "freedom."

Respectfully disagreeing,
-DAllen

The United States is BAD! Other countries are happy utopias by comparison! All of them! We're practically living in the Middle Ages here, can't you see that?!

Disrespectifully disagreeing,

CF

But it IS manipulative and you have proven it because you never answered my initial question...Is that execution number PER CAPITA RATE or OVERALL NUMBERS? That quote is like saying , "Oh my gosh, there are 290k Americans in insane assylums and there's only 20k Canadians in assylums. HOLY CRAP WHY ARE AMERICANS GOING SO CRAZY?"

Well let's just say (for the sake of arguement) America only has 290 million people within it's borders and Canada only has 20 million. Guess what...the per capita rate of crazy people in either country IS THE SAME. So the initial question of, "why are the Americans going crazy" looks pretty stupid. Now do you see the rediculous nature of that quote from Amnesty International?

Oh, sorry, I see your point now the last part is too vague, and the quote itself may lead a reader to make their own conclusions which are not fair, but I dont think it implies it. The part of the wuote I was referring to was the part about legitimate countries who openly admit to executing juveniles. This is why is say the quote can be mis leading if taken wrong, because there are plenty of executions by plenty of countries (of juveniles) but the quote is talking about openly admitting, and legitimate countries.

If that means being the leader in freedom then I want no part of it. I would much rather we hold on to our conservative ways. First of all the dude isn't 17 anymore. Second, would it be better if the guy committed the crime when he was 18? Is that the issue? Give me a break. The maturity difference between 17 and 18 year olds is non-existent. I know first hand because I have worked with teenagers in our church's youth group for the last 9 years. So some countries don't execute before the age of 18. We just happen to draw the line *rarely* one year earlier.

So, in those other wonderful 1st world countries...Hows the spread of STD's going? How about drug addiction? How about the rates of suicide and crime? I honestly have no idea how they compare to the US but I seriously doubt they're doing any better with more "freedom."

Respectfully disagreeing,
-DAllen

The difference between a 17 and 18 year old is not non-existant, although its rather small. But, when deciding literally the fate of someones life, the difference is magnified.

You asked if it would be better if the teen was 18 instead of 17 at the time of the crime, and I would say yes. Well, it does not make the crime any better but it makes his would be execution better. If the guy was 9 at the time, would it make a difference? yes it would make a huge difference. Obviously this is a extreme and unrealistic example, but the point is that age and time change things.

Also you said some countries dont execute until 18. That is true, but you trivialized two things. First, you trivialized the fact that every "1st world country" EXCLUDING america has that policy, which I would say is more then just some. The second point is some (more and more) have completely banned Capital Punishment altogether. (you did not trivialize that second statement, it wasnt mentioned anywhere before)

Regarding your last paragraph. I assume you refer to the allowing of gay marriage when you speak of aids. Gays can and do have sex in america, and legally. Allowing gay marriage will have no real effect on the number of gays, or the number of gays having sex. the amount of aids, i do not see how that would change at all either.

Secondly, I realize you stated you were not sure about the facts of other countries, but you did make implications, which leaves the burden of at least some proof on you before I accept it as a valid arguement.

The evidence would have to show an increase in aids or drug crime etc from before those freedoms were granted otherwise its not valid: America has more money then any other country, and has better education and health services, therefore will and does have less of those problems.

thanks for staying calm mature and intelligent.

JokingClown wrote:

go marry your tinklebell girlfriend named fred

And you say you are 24?

Ok fine im gay, you are smart, you win. I dont argue with 13 year olds.

yes i am 24, since jan 20th.

oh and congratulations on being the first "out of the closet fag" in winbolo..

i hope this "out of the cloest" action you have taken provokes others such as underdog, and fireice to do the same...

sincerly,

dEEzEE

Just recently the catholic church dubbed spongebob squarepants a homosexual. Thinks that's lame? They also have Tinkie winkie from the teletubbies, batman and robin, and ernie and bert on their list. A priest also declared, around the 1980's that dancing the tango was a sin.


WTF

DAllen wrote:

Also, in those countries (other than the US) listed there, freedom of religion is banned. They are, in effect, theocracies. It is not uncommon for Christians to be beat to death and to have their churches burned to the ground in places like Iran. So before trying to quote some bleeding heart organization with some garbage like that against the US, consider all the facts. In fact, consider these facts:

Do yourself a favor, don't consider some obscure information on a couple of websites 'fact' ...... or if you do, try looking at 'all the info' as you say, I'm sure you'll quickly find out how christians prosecute others just as much as they are prosecuted themselves. But then, I can create a few websites that state all kinds of misleading statistical information. Like all the monkey schools that were closed over in africa becuase the locals didn't agree with educating monkeys ...... poor poor monkeys ...........

Min

Min wrote:

DAllen wrote:

Also, in those countries (other than the US) listed there, freedom of religion is banned. They are, in effect, theocracies. It is not uncommon for Christians to be beat to death and to have their churches burned to the ground in places like Iran. So before trying to quote some bleeding heart organization with some garbage like that against the US, consider all the facts. In fact, consider these facts:

Do yourself a favor, don't consider some obscure information on a couple of websites 'fact' ...... or if you do, try looking at 'all the info' as you say, I'm sure you'll quickly find out how christians prosecute others just as much as they are prosecuted themselves. But then, I can create a few websites that state all kinds of misleading statistical information. Like all the monkey schools that were closed over in africa becuase the locals didn't agree with educating monkeys ...... poor poor monkeys ...........

Min

Soooo...how do you explain he people I have met IN PERSON that have confirmed much of that information? Who experienced that garbage first-hand themselves? Sorry I didn't do my homework better and didn't get ALL the facts. Read on and you'll see I've improved...

Well, sounds like you need to hear about this from a non-Christian source. A more "reputable" source I guess :roll: . How about Amnesty International? I don't really care for them but even they have to acknowledge Christian persecution happens:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE310052000
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAFR640062003

Okay...that not good enough for you? How about cbsnews.com?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/09/05/world/main230644.shtml?CMP=ILC-SearchStories

And ABCnews...(last paragraph)
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82631&page=1


And a few from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3993857.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3663654.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3913263.stm

Is that better Min? Enough facts for you?

My original point (maybe not very well stated) was that the US is not that bad of a country - in fact, it's a good place to live. Not about whether or not Christian persecution occurs. But since you brought it up...

I am truely sorry if I am coming off a little harsh here but I am so frustrated that this kind of stuff is not making the regular rounds on the major news channels. Look, even if Christians are doing the persecution (and I know that does happen) then that ought to be newsworthy as well - hold those freaks accountable! Why the majority of the free world seems to be oblivious and apathetic to religious persecution is beyond me and a great source of aggravation. Even though I was able to find those stories listed above and unless it happens on a genocidal level, when was the last time you saw stuff like that on the front page?

Unfortunately, the majority of the religious persecution that occurs in the world happens to Christians and is going largely unoticed. For example, we have a series of incidents at Abu Ghrab prison where (albeit VERY BAD things happened there) the worst thing that happened is Iraqis were forced to dog-pile on each other in the nude (among other attrocities). The US was forced to issue an apology (righfully so) and reprimand those involved and that stuff made headlines for about a month or more - which it should.

On the other hand Christians are being tourtured. Forced to watch friends, family and even children tourtured for refusing to convert and these cases are well documented. Why isn't that stuff making headlines? Why haven't Christians recieved an apology?


-DAllen

JokingClown/LRL? wrote:

The evidence would have to show an increase in aids or drug crime etc from before those freedoms were granted otherwise its not valid: America has more money than any other country, and has better education and health services, therefore will and does have less of those problems.

HAHAHAHAHA! Lol, you fucking crack me up! Better health services/health care than ANY other country? Hahahaha, maybe if you're Bill Gates and can afford it! What an extreme crock of shit. Canada and other countries habe better health care systems than your country ever will (under the current government at least) ever have.

Cool_Fool wrote:

The United States is BAD! Other countries are happy utopias by comparison! All of them! We're practically living in the Middle Ages here, can't you see that?!

EXACTLY!

-Madd Maxx-

Dallen, while you do have a point, its hardly fair to compare what OUR troops did to prisoners to what other countries and terrorist organizations do. Do you expect OUR government to give christians an apology? I dont understand who you want the apology from.

It was a little worse from just making them dogpile. This is what is known for sure they have done, although theres some evidence it could be much worse.

a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear;

f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;

i. (S) Writing "I am a Rapest" (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;

f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

http://www.rotten.com/library/crime/prison/abu-ghraib/

DAllen wrote:

My original point (maybe not very well stated) was that the US is not that bad of a country - in fact, it's a good place to live.

This kind of thing used to bother me too, Dallen. But lately I've come around to seeing it as a sort of backhanded COMPLIMENT of the United States. That people should be so concerned with the actions of this country, and so distressed when those actions are morally deficient, is a testament to the fact that we are held to a higher standard than the rest of the world.

Earlier someone was talking about the abuse at Abu Ghuraib, which sparked a massive global outcry. I think it's telling that a half dozen poorly disciplined Americans, acting on their own, could generate more concern than could the many nations were widespread state-sponsored repression is a daily occurance.

To me, anti-Americanism at home and abroad are actually validations of this country. People expect the best from us, because we are the best.

Standing by point-by-point refutations, ad hominem attacks, feigned confusion over definitions, accusations of generalization, foul language, and all the other hallmarks of internet debate,

CF

JokingClown wrote:

Dallen, while you do have a point, its hardly fair to compare what OUR troops did to prisoners to what other countries and terrorist organizations do. Do you expect OUR government to give christians an apology? I dont understand who you want the apology from.

It was a little worse from just making them dogpile. This is what is known for sure they have done, although theres some evidence it could be much worse.

Umm...Didn't I say "among other attrocities" and "VERY BAD things?" I know it was a little worse than that but I just didn't feel that I needed to go into details since many of the incidents have been all over the news. Read my stuff a little more carefully please.

Apologies? Where do I want it from? C'om on - think about it J-C. You're smarter than that! :wink: I want it from the people who have done the tourtures and murdering of my Christian bretheren. Of course, I realize that will most certainly never happen. That was originally meant to be a rhetorical question to show that the world *seems* to hold the US to a higher moral standard - which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I just want the rest of the world to be held to the same standard. That's not unreasonable.

Lastly, IT IS fair to make that comparison. It shows that our country is at least doing something (while it probably won't be enough for my liking) about the wrongs and makes apologies where appropriate unlike countries such as Saudi Arabia that just don't care. They don't care about people being hung on crosses...having to watch family members tourtured because they would not reject Christ...being stoned to death...etc.

It's time for religious persucution (and not just persecution of Christians either) to end and for the world to take it's head out of the sand about it. It's worse than you think.

-DAllen

Q-mandabomb wrote:

Just recently the catholic church dubbed spongebob squarepants a homosexual. Thinks that's lame? They also have Tinkie winkie from the teletubbies, batman and robin, and ernie and bert on their list. A priest also declared, around the 1980's that dancing the tango was a sin.


WTF

Q...you answered your own question. It's the Catholic church. They do weird stuff like that every once in a while. Example: Remember, "a coin in the coffers box clings a soul from purgatory flings" from the dark ages in your history class? The concept of purgatory was created by the Catholics to get more money.

Then again...there are plenty of protestants that do bizarre stuff too...Can you say WACKO - oops I mean WACO?

-DAllen

Can i get a side of wacko on my tac-oh?

quote="JokingClown"]
The evidence would have to show an increase in aids or drug crime etc from before those freedoms were granted otherwise its not valid: America has more money than any other country, and has better education and health services, therefore will and does have less of those problems. [/quote]


more money? OHHH u must mean this because many other countries... such as saudi arabia have over 7 trillion invested in america..


better education? ever heard of china and japan?


better health services? you obviously haven't been to canada.