Why Brains?

Hi,

Just registered WinBolo yesterday, hopefully I'll play some games (used to play a lot on the Mac). One thing puzzles me about WinBolo servers - why is it so common to allow brains? In 2 of my last 3 games someone was using a brain (or borg, whatever) of some sort - I know cos they announced their startup dutifully.

I think servers should normally be set to disallow any type of brains. Otherwise I'm always going to be wondering if that skillful lgm kill was actually computer assisted...

Edited to add: I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I got an annoyed message from someone who shall remain nameless - I don't know what these bots are doing. They just make me uneasy, that's all.

Welcome to the Winbolo community Evercat.
My thoughts is that brains, borgs, and other what have you should only be allowed in Open games. The only thing that should be allowed in Strict or Tourny games should be human skill.
The only true way to get better is with practice, and some players do not realize that, or they disreguard it.
Thats pretty much my thoughts, there are a few players you should look out for, and if you read the forums, I think you'll discover who they are.
Other than that-I HAVE WINBOLO 1.14 AND WILL RELEASE!

-jhood

Welcome Evercat.....



And I got Winbolo 2.0 and maybe I will release it....
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Evercat wrote:

I think servers should normally be set to disallow any type of brains. Otherwise I'm always going to be wondering if that skillful lgm kill was actually computer assisted...

Good point Evercat, and it's good to see you back (I talked with you a few months ago when you first came to winbolo, and no, my mac still is not networked).

Thats a good idea and something I wouldn't mind doing for my sheepbot games (started from irc.winbolo.us). My autospawner games don't have that option, so it will be up to SJ to add that to his next version :)

Unless of course Elvis gets autospawning in the next version.

good
i dea don't put bot in stric game who neeed bot to play better people can get better by their skill and there golden hand like kas have a golden lgm hehe

So are you complaining about all borgs/brains? Or just ones that play for you, since I'm fairly certain that minborg just logs the news link messages. I'm not too up to date on min's programming, so I'm not too sure what it does anymore. So please don't shoot me if it does more that I don't know about. Also if you were to try banning borgs/brains from games/servers and you play with minborg (assuming it's just a logger) you can't play? Or would you be able to make an exception for something like that?

I was merely asking why most servers allow bots. If it's for logging or similar purposes then that's fine, but how do you stop other uses?

Evercat wrote:

I was merely asking why most servers allow bots. If it's for logging or similar purposes then that's fine, but how do you stop other uses?

Well, they do to allow players their option of choosing to use one or not. Most of the time, no one will load up a brain (bot) in a game 'coz they're not able to do much except die and get stuck somewhere. If a player chooses to load up a borg to help them play, thats fine. I've personally never used a borg as I find the only areas of mine that need improving cannot be helped by a borg. Also, I've seen players that are able to shoot LGMs with more accuracy than any borg, mostly mac'ers.

most borg's give u a message anyways so u know when there using it, and who cares if they need it, let them use it

Hmm, I just tried one of the borgs available. With functions like "grab tree" and "kill lgm" I would definitely consider it cheating. So I'll be trying to avoid servers that allow bots from now on. :)

Evercat wrote:

Hmm, I just tried one of the borgs available. With functions like "grab tree" and "kill lgm" I would definitely consider it cheating. So I'll be trying to avoid servers that allow bots from now on. :)

Its not cheating. CHEATS are things like speed hack and other shit like that. This was just a simple borg.....wait a min,, did u say kill LGM!?!?!?! whar do i get it? :D

sheeps wrote:

Evercat wrote:

I think servers should normally be set to disallow any type of brains. Otherwise I'm always going to be wondering if that skillful lgm kill was actually computer assisted...

Good point Evercat, and it's good to see you back (I talked with you a few months ago when you first came to winbolo, and no, my mac still is not networked).

Thats a good idea and something I wouldn't mind doing for my sheepbot games (started from irc.winbolo.us). My autospawner games don't have that option, so it will be up to SJ to add that to his next version :)

Unless of course Elvis gets autospawning in the next version.

i can understnad these lgm killing machines...and i swear i would never use one of these borgs. however, if u dissallow borgs, u can film anything :( so please dont dissallow borgs ppl! plz! :cry: :cry: :cry: ...especially ppl using hacks...they need ta be filmed...i also film lotsa glitches.....ect........so plz dont do this.......i also feel that lgm killing borgs are cheating.....(have i said this b4)......so..ya
plz dont!!!! :roll: :oops: :oops: :? :? :( :cry: :( :cry: :(

well, I feel I should add something to this thread, since noone who's actually programmed a borg has said anything. there is no borgs availible for winbolo that would in anyway asist a person with killing lgm's, or anything of that sort. if you feel a borg is helpful, you havn't played long enough to realize they just slow you down. if you've used the "lgm kill" feature of some of the borgs availible you will realize that having complete control of your tank taken away so that it can try to aim for a lgm it likely won't hit is a bad idea. turning off bot/borg support will simply discourage people from programming them. and if people don't program them, whats the point of having a bot interface? the "grab tree" feature of one of the previously mentioned bots ... doesn't work very well btw, it has a tendency to send your lgm all the way accross the map to try and grab a tree ... usually a bad idea ... human players will always be able to kill lgm's better than a borg player. The interface isn't built in such a way to make it easy for this sort of thing to be programmed. Taking away features becuase you have next to no knowledge of how they work is a bad idea, this whole thread is people jumping up and down saying YA YA! lets turn off bot/borgs on the servers. why don't you try programming one to kill lgm's before you get so upset about how someone may use one to kill yours. it will after all, only slow them down. I think people forget that this game only has 2 to 4 different servers running. I use my borg to track how many games I play, on what maps, and against who, I'm sure that somehow helps killing lgms......

Min

Well, you're probably right Min. I'm sorry for causing all this trouble.

Still, it occurs to me that the best solution would be to modify the game-spawning bots (sheepbot etc) so that it was optional whether to create a game allowing or disallowing brains. I don't know how easy or hard that would be to implement?

Evercat wrote:

Well, you're probably right Min. I'm sorry for causing all this trouble.

Still, it occurs to me that the best solution would be to modify the game-spawning bots (sheepbot etc) so that it was optional whether to create a game allowing or disallowing brains. I don't know how easy or hard that would be to implement?

I don't know weither you read it or not, but remeber the part about there being 2-3 servers at anyone time? .. guess what .. those servers are the ones that allow bots, with people starting them without bot support becuase they are so afraid people may use a bot to kill thier lgm. things will occur as I just described... driving away what few people there already is trying to develop 3rd party software/stuff for winbolo.

Min

Min wrote:

I don't know weither you read it or not, but remeber the part about there being 2-3 servers at anyone time? .. guess what .. those servers are the ones that allow bots, with people starting them without bot support becuase they are so afraid people may use a bot to kill thier lgm. things will occur as I just described... driving away what few people there already is trying to develop 3rd party software/stuff for winbolo.
Min

Exactly Min, there are always many game servers out there so there will always be servers that allow bots. Getting people to write third party software is a good thing and should be encouraged. I'm not too worried with the advantages some players get with borgs (map and possiblily lgm killing), some create a dependence and limit a player growth.

But I also like the idea of creating a diverse gaming environment so people have options in how they play, so they can get exposed to something different and maybe find something they may like better. So I have removed brains from the passworded strict games started with sheepbot, but they remain with any other games started, including the autospawner (which I couldn't change if I wanted to). And this is just to test it out to see what people think about it, I may change it back later if it provides no positive.

- Sheeps

Min wrote:

I don't know weither you read it or not, but remeber the part about there being 2-3 servers at anyone time? .. guess what .. those servers are the ones that allow bots, with people starting them without bot support becuase they are so afraid people may use a bot to kill thier lgm. things will occur as I just described...

I don't see why people shouldn't be able to make up their own mind whether they want to start a game that allows bots or not. Let the game starter decide for themselves. Some people will start games allowing bots; some won't. Nobody should be forced to do it one way or the other.

well, I feel I should add something to this thread, since noone who's actually programmed a borg has said anything. there is no borgs availible for winbolo that would in anyway asist a person with killing lgm's, or anything of that sort. if you feel a borg is helpful, you havn't played long enough to realize they just slow you down. if you've used the "lgm kill" feature of some of the borgs availible you will realize that having complete control of your tank taken away so that it can try to aim for a lgm it likely won't hit is a bad idea.

A little bit of contradiction there?

.::jhood::. wrote:

well, I feel I should add something to this thread, since noone who's actually programmed a borg has said anything. there is no borgs availible for winbolo that would in anyway asist a person with killing lgm's, or anything of that sort. if you feel a borg is helpful, you havn't played long enough to realize they just slow you down. if you've used the "lgm kill" feature of some of the borgs availible you will realize that having complete control of your tank taken away so that it can try to aim for a lgm it likely won't hit is a bad idea.

A little bit of contradiction there?

you would understand if you tried to use it, go load it up and then come back and call it a contradiction.

Min

sheeps wrote:

Exactly Min, there are always many game servers out there so there will always be servers that allow bots. Getting people to write third party software is a good thing and should be encouraged. I'm not too worried with the advantages some players get with borgs (map and possiblily lgm killing), some create a dependence and limit a player growth.

But I also like the idea of creating a diverse gaming environment so people have options in how they play, so they can get exposed to something different and maybe find something they may like better. So I have removed brains from the passworded strict games started with sheepbot, but they remain with any other games started, including the autospawner (which I couldn't change if I wanted to). And this is just to test it out to see what people think about it, I may change it back later if it provides no positive.

- Sheeps

your missing the point of what I said sheeps, I've regularly tried to play bolo since I left irc. there is at any one time at most 3 servers ... sometimes it spikes with a bucnh of open games ... if 2 of those three servers disallow bots ... the people who play with borgs will only be able to play on one? ... real brilliant idea ... having borg support add's functionality to the game, why don't we just take away ammo next ... that would be fun. then we can just bump into each other till we die.
Min

Evercat wrote:

Min wrote:

I don't know weither you read it or not, but remeber the part about there being 2-3 servers at anyone time? .. guess what .. those servers are the ones that allow bots, with people starting them without bot support becuase they are so afraid people may use a bot to kill thier lgm. things will occur as I just described...

I don't see why people shouldn't be able to make up their own mind whether they want to start a game that allows bots or not. Let the game starter decide for themselves. Some people will start games allowing bots; some won't. Nobody should be forced to do it one way or the other.

you don't seem to understand. Let me show you an example. quite some time ago(when minbot was actually used), I changed minbot from tournament games to strict tournament games. people of course were still free to start whatever games they wanted...... guess what .... people rarely start anything but strict games now ...... that is what will happen with the same sort of feature. and I strongly disagree with sheeps turning bots off on his ircbot ...

Min

Min wrote:

having borg support add's functionality to the game, why don't we just take away ammo next ... that would be fun. then we can just bump into each other till we die.

That's not exactly fair. Borgs are certainly not a core part of the game.

Min brings up some valid arguements, i was gonna send sheeps a spawner with the turning bots off option but im gonna scrap that idea, i guess he's free to try pleasing everyone with his irc bot though. And i do like the other idea, please take away ammo, winbolo should be a peaceful idea, and whats with all the quotes lately? and borgs are a core part of the game, they were programmed in there so they could be used, or should elvis jsut rip that feature out? there's no good ai, a couple good borgs........why not let the newbies use them......when they get alil better learn how to play using a good keysetup, and how to use gunsights they will relize how much its slowing them down.

Suicide Jockey wrote:

Min brings up some valid arguements, i was gonna send sheeps a spawner with the turning bots off option but im gonna scrap that idea, i guess he's free to try pleasing everyone with his irc bot though. And i do like the other idea, please take away ammo, winbolo should be a peaceful idea, and whats with all the quotes lately? and borgs are a core part of the game, they were programmed in there so they could be used, or should elvis jsut rip that feature out? there's no good ai, a couple good borgs........why not let the newbies use them......when they get alil better learn how to play using a good keysetup, and how to use gunsights they will relize how much its slowing them down.

Yup, Min has a good point, which is why I have not removing them from any but one type of game started. Since almost every game has bots enabled, I still don't think having some games that do not is going to end life as we know it. If the newbies never see a game without bots, then they may not even bother to improve their bot-less skills. But good thing I'm just one little guy serving games.

Evercat wrote:

I was merely asking why most servers allow bots.

They do that so players have the option of using one or not. If the server disallows bots then the player has no choice but not to play with one. And honestly, do borgs really give the player such an advantage that the other player has no chance of winning? I know that when stronger players play each other any small mistake can have catastrophic consequences, but these are new players and little mistakes are everywhere.